WILLS - some questions - Genealogists' Forum

Oakum Picker · #1 08-03-13, 12:51

Very few wills exist for my family & where they do they just confirm things I already know so I haven't looked very closely at them.

I have just returned from Norfolk with several copies of & info. from wills which I am trying to use to help me sort out the CANNELL family.

I spent a good part of the morning trying to figure out how someone who was buried on Dec 25th could write a will on Jan 10th the following year. It was only when I read it more thoroughly that I saw the testator had signed it on Dec 19th & the witnesses had signed on Jan 10th. Another is the same but that person lived for a further 4 years.

Was this common & was it legal?

When the testator died he mentioned his 2 sons & 2 daughters by name. Three months later when his father made his will, the father mentions his late son's 3 children. None of the children had died in that period but one of the daughters was already married. Might her gf exclude her for that reason?

Or is it more likely that as the gf had to remember his 11 children some of whom pre-deceased him but who had varying numbers of offspring, he simply forgot how many or wrote the number in error.

The copies I have are not the originals so I suppose an error could have occurred there.

Any opinions?

kiterunner · #2 08-03-13, 13:01

What years were these wills written, Glen? Before or after the calendar change of 1752?

As far as I know, the witnesses were supposed to sign on the same date as the testator, since what they were supposed to be witnessing was his / her signature! If there was some irregularity with the signatures then there may have been testimony at the probate hearing to confirm that the testator did sign the will etc. and if this was satisfactory then probate could still be granted as normal.

Oakum Picker · #3 08-03-13, 13:24

The one I was querying was written at the end of 1768 & like you I thought the witnesses had to do that, witness but the date is definitely Jan 10th & he was buried on Dec 25th. His father's was signed properly in April 1769.

The other one with the date anomaly is for Robert DRAKE.
He starts off with the date made Jun 22nd 1778 & before he signs he writes 'and fixed my seal the day & year first above written. Then the witnesses sign in the appropriate language & then the date. Aug 1st 1778.

Just thought, am I being a plonker? Don't answer that. Is the 2nd date when it was registered?

kiterunner · #4 08-03-13, 13:31

What exactly does it say just before the second date, Glen?

Oakum Picker · #5 08-03-13, 14:10

For James CANNELL after he makes his mark.
Signed Sealed Published & Declared by the said James CANNELL the Testator as and for his last Will and Testament in the Presence of us who at his request and in the Presence of each other have subscribed our names as Witnesses. 3 names
The 10th Day of Jan 1769
There's then the bit about the executors being sworn and another date Nov 27th 1771

The one for Robert DRAKE has exactly the same wording & after the witnesses signatures:
In (I think) Norwich the 1st Day of August 1778
Then executors sworn & Examined the 17th day of May 1782 by me Thomas Stoughton

kiterunner · #6 08-03-13, 14:17

So where do you get the first date from, Glen?

Oakum Picker · #7 08-03-13, 15:43

Before James CANNELL makes his mark he mentions the no' of sheets & set my hand & seal this 19th day of December 1768

Robert DRAKE starts with name, place & occupation, then 'made the 22nd June 1778.

Phoenix · #8 08-03-13, 20:20

Most of the Norfolk wills are registered copies (in a book, rather than individual bits of paper) My guess is that the second date is indeed the date it was proved.

I do have quite a few wills which don't mention all the children/grandchildren, usually because they have been provided for. But it is very rare for the reason to be made explicit, alas.

Olde Crone · #9 08-03-13, 21:43

I've just checked my own Will, lol.

I made my Will on (say) 13th September 2000 but I did not sign it until the 22nd, which is when it was witnessed.

My late parents made mirror Wills and signed them on the same day in the solicitor's office. The witnesses were employees of the Solicitor. however, when my mum died, it transpired that she had not actually signed, even though her signature had been witnessed!

This caused a minor panic and the Solicitor had to eat humble pie with the Probate Office, who eventually accepted my mother's intention to sign. So much for doing things properly......

OC

Oakum Picker · #10 08-03-13, 22:45

Thanks everyone for your input.

Phoenix, both of these wills have 3 dates, one in the body of the will, one after the witnesses signature & one for probate.

OC. James CANNELL made his will on Dec 19th but was in the ground by Dec 25th so couldn't have signed it on Jan 10th.

I don't understand why there are 3 dates.

The other wills I have show a date when the will is made & witnessed & another for probate.