3xg grandad brick wall!

[Hann85]

Hi I'm looking for some help in finding out the place of birth and parents of Jacob prime 1884-1899.
He gets married in 1970 to Elizabeth Bailey
He is on the 1871 census as chas j prime with his wife Elizabeth prime
1881 miss index as Jacob Prince with his wife Elizabeth plus children
1891 census as Jacob prime with wife Elizabeth plus children.
All give his birth place as USA/America father's name John. The areas he lived in were bethnal green. He dies on 1899
I'm looking for any information before 1970 can anyone help me!
Kind regards
Han

[kiterunner]

Hello and welcome to the forum, Han.

First, just to confirm what you have said and add some details:

1871 census 8 Old Castle St, Bethnal Green
Chas J Prime Head Mar 23 Porter US America
Elizth Do Wife " 22 London

1881 census 2 Alexandra Terrace, Tottenham
Jacob Prime Head Mar 30 Fishmonger America
Elizabeth Do Wife " 28 Middx Shoreditch
Children: Henry 10, Ada 8, Elizabeth 5, Florence 3, all born Shoreditch; Jacob 1 born Tottenham.

1891 census 6 Queen's Buildings, Bethnal Green
Jacob Prime Head Married 43 Poulterer America
Elizabeth Do Wife Do 40 London Bethnal Green
Children Henry 20, Ada 17, Elizabeth 16, Florence 15, Lewis 9, Louie 6, Albert 4, May 1, Jacob 11, all born Bethnal Green.

Mother's maiden name on May's birth reg is Bailey.

Marriage Oct-Dec 1870 Jacob Prime / Elizabeth Bailey, Bethnal Green.
Death Jan-Mar 1899 Jacob Prime, age 50, Hackney.

[Phoenix]

There is a 2 year old Charles, son of Jacob on the 1850 Census:

First name(s) Charles
Last name Prime
Gender: Male
Age 2
Birth year 1848
Birth place Pennsylvania
Race Black
Dwelling 52
City/township South Easton
County Northampton
State Pennsylvania
NARA series 444770
Record set Us Census 1850
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Americas, United States

[kiterunner]

This is the Jacob Prime / Elizabeth Bailey marriage certificate and his father's name is John on there:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_189956-00481/1711287?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmamarriages%26gsfn%3djac*%26 gsln%3dpr%253fme%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d 0%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26redir%3dfalse%2 6uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

20 Nov 1870 St Matthew, Bethnal Green
Jacob Prime, full age, bachelor, waiter, 48 Old Castle St, father John Prime, waiter
Elizabeth Bailey, full age, spinster, same address, father John Bailey, carman.
Witnesses Thomas Hayes and E Miller.

[kiterunner]

There is a public tree on ancestry which suggests this 1850 US census entry but says they haven't yet proved this is his family:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8054/4192455_00517/1922627?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/76128239/person/48511875315/facts

And the 1860 entry for that John and Jacob:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7667/4230551_00305/5729379?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/76128239/person/48511875315/facts

1850 census Harrison Township, Howard County, Indiana
John Prime 64 farmer, born Massachusetts
Rebecca " 48 born South Carolina
Children: Nathaniel 21, William 19, John T 16, Mariah 12, Mary 9, Margaret 7, Jacob 4, all born Indiana.

1860 census Lafayette, Story County, Iowa
John Prime 75, farmer, born Mass
Jacob M 11 born Indiana.

But John's occupation doesn't match with the father's occupation on your Jacob's marriage cert.

[kiterunner]

And it looks as though that tree does have the wrong Jacob, since this looks like the one from those censuses in 1880:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6742/4242191-00125/24563077?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/19384957/person/18817343884/facts
Edison, Furnas County, Nebraska
Prime Jacob M, 31, farmer, born Indiana, parents born Massachusetts and North Carolina
Harriet E 22 wife, keeping house, born Iowa
Irwa L 1 daughter, born Nebraska.

So, back to the drawing board...

[kiterunner]

Here is an old thread from the WDYTYA magazine forum but it doesn't have any more info than we have here:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic9935.html

I see you have already found it, Han.

[kiterunner]

Oh, except that thread mentioned this criminal register entry from 1870, and Jacob Prime is listed with a Frederick Prime on there:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1590/31251_A006156-00200/579236?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Middlesex Sessions 23 May 1870 and they were both acquitted of larceny and receiving.

Of course we don't know whether this is the right Jacob Prime.

[kiterunner]

This may or may not be the same Frederick Prime, on the 1871 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/MDXRG10_1337_1339-0166/1458197?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

The Hale, Tottenham
Frederick Benjn Prime Head Mar 34 Tea Dealer Middx Tottenham Ct Rd
Elizabeth Charlotte Prime Wife 25 Do St Anne Soho
Arthur John Prime Son 3 Herts Ware
Charles Prime " 2 Do "
Henry Prime " 7 mo Middx Tottenham
Emily Venables Servant Unm 17 Domestic Servant Herts Cheshunt.

[kiterunner]

Frederick Benjamin Prime has a brother Edwin with him on the 1861 census, born 1840 at Stratford, Essex. The GRO birth index gives MMN as Cass.
On the 1851 census their parents are Benjamin and Anna but there is no Jacob or Charles in the household:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/MDXHO107_1531_1532-0446?pid=2988581&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ctf11161&_phstart=successSource

This criminal register thing could all be a red herring of course.

[kiterunner]

There is a 2 year old Charles, son of Jacob on the 1850 Census:

First name(s) Charles
Last name Prime
Gender: Male
Age 2
Birth year 1848
Birth place Pennsylvania
Race Black
Dwelling 52
City/township South Easton
County Northampton
State Pennsylvania
NARA series 444770
Record set Us Census 1850
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Americas, United States

That one is still in Pennsylvania on the 1870 US census.

[Phoenix]

I know, but I couldn't see him on the 1880 census.

Actually, I imagine that he was probably east coast, with a father who was possibly a steward on a merchant ship. Or his father is to be found somewhere in London in 1871. Lots of families went to America and came back.

[kiterunner]

Just to save anyone else going this route, UK Census Online lists a John Prime, lodging house keeper, in Kent on the 1871 census, but his surname is really Penn.

[kiterunner]

Ancestry has a database of "Missing Friends" adverts placed in the "Boston Pilot" (indexed by the World Archives Project volunteers).
1 Jan 1876:
OF JACOB PRIME (colored), who left Connecticut about seven years ago; he wrote a letter five years ago, and I have not heard of or from him. I have written to London, where he was at the time he wrote, but the letters were sent back. His mother, Mary Prime, is anxious about him. Direct to Mary Prime, 10 Morgan street, New Bedford, Mass.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5060/41270_B132607-00547?pid=22453&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5060%26h%3D22453%26tid% 3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DCtf11206%26 _phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ctf11206&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=41270_B132607-00547

This could be that Jacob on the 1850 US Census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8054/4181029-00209?pid=18267234&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ctf11207&_phstart=successSource

New Haven, Connecticut
John Prime 50 Black, laborer, born New York
Mary " 35 born New York
Children: Julia A 16, John L 15, Louisa 11, Ralphaella 9, Martha (or Marsha?) 7, Jacob R 14, Joseph 1, all born Connecticut.

John L Prime, born 1835 New Haven, Connecticut, appears in the Civil War Sailors database with occupation waiter. So maybe other family members had that occupation at one time or another?

[kiterunner]

This is the Civil War record of Jacob Prime from New Haven, Connecticut, age 19 in 1864.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1107/miusa1861m_089903-00251?pid=161926&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ctf11208&_phstart=successSource
(make sure to keep clicking to view the next image as there are a lot of pages in his record.)

So I'm thinking the age 14 on the 1850 census could be a mistake and it was supposed to say 4. Just looking for the 1860 census to confirm...

[kiterunner]

Ah yes, here he is in 1860 age 13 (transcribed as Prieve on ancestry), so the 1850 census age was a mistake.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7667/4211345_00152/17454544?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1860usfedcenancestry%26gsfn%3 djac*%26gsln%3dpri*e%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26c p%3d0%26msrdy_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp%3dnew%2bhaven%252 c%2bnew%2bhaven%252c%2bconnecticut%252c%2busa%26ms rpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn%3d3342%26msrpn_x%3d1%26hc%3 d20%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26redir%3dfalse%26uidh%3d vm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

New Haven, Connecticut
Mary Prime 40, Black, Washer
Children: Harriet L 19, Raphaella 17, Martha 15, Jacob 13, Joseph 10, Andrew 8, Sarah 6.

[kiterunner]

So, your Jacob is the one born New Haven, Connecticut with parents John and Mary, since we have the newspaper ad saying he went to London.