Moult of Chinley - a tangled web

[ElizabethHerts]

Thomas Moult, OH's 8x-great-grandfather, died and was buried at Mottram-in-Longdendale, Cheshire. (Burial 23rd January 1720/21)

However, he came from the Chinley area (Chinley is in the parish of Glossop).

His will states :
"Item I give & bequeath to my Son John my cofer standing in the house
in Chinley"


Thomas had the following children:
Sarah, who married Higham Hollinworth (OH's 7x-great-grandparents). They lived at Mottram-in-Longdendale.
John, who married Susanna (Goodyer from Mottram-in-Longdendale, father Thomas)
Thomas, who married Elizabeth Grantham.

I have also noted a William, but need to find the evidence for this.

Another family - Moult of Eccles
http://www.derbyshirelife.co.uk/homes-gardens/property-market/other-country-house-eccles-house-derbyshire-1-1631059

The two families are most probably related.

"That aside, an estate here seems to have come into the hands of the Mold, or as later spelt, Moult, family as early as the 13th century. Here I have been much aided by the researches of a descendant, who claims for them kinship with Sir Roger de Montalt, seneschal of the Earls of Chester, although in nearly all Derbyshire charters known to me his interests seem to lie further south, at Rosliston and Walton-on-Trent.

Certainly, by the time of the Hearth Tax in 1670, there were several farming families of this name in NW Derbyshire and a Robert Mold is attested as of Bradshaw Edge in a charter of 1345, and two at Eccles in the 1381 Poll Tax.

Eccles House as such reaches the record in 1509 when it came to Thomas Molte and the will is extant of another Thomas, of Eccles, in 1578. It was probably then a simple stone built farmhouse, for John Moult was taxed on just two hearths there in 1670.

In late March 1683, apparently, Thomas Moult of Eccles and his young son both died of cholera, leaving a daughter and heiress who later married German, son of German Buxton, a third son of the Brassington branch of that family. He is said to have rebuilt and enlarged the house, no doubt to reflect his status, for the Moults were never then of greater status than yeomen, and their name is conspicuously absent from the Heralds' Visitations of the County, unlike the Buxtons. He also purchased land to build up an estate around the house.

German's son William died unmarried, the heir being his sister Martha, married to a probable kinsman, Thomas Moult of Chinley. Moult seems to have been an amateur craftsman of some talent, if a pedimented breakfront bookcase, included in the 1983 house sale, is anything to go by - he is said to have made it from oak felled on the estate.

Thomas Moult died in 1751, leaving another under-age heiress, Sarah, then but four. She is said to have met and fallen in love with her future husband, Thomas Goodman, when as a teenager, she called at the local pub for supplies and he was staying there, en route for a cousin's house in Manchester, a fugitive from debt. They married at Chapel-en-le-Frith on 2nd December 1765, by licence, Sarah being still under age. Her mother is said to have been ignorant of George's alleged circumstances until after the marriage, a fact which I find highly unlikely, given the positively forensic attention such matters merited in that era!"

tbc

[ElizabethHerts]

The Thomas Moult who died in 1751 was connected to OH's family. His daughter, Sarah, who married Thomas Goodman, in mentioned in the will of John Moult, Surgeon, of Rochdale. Also mentioned was OH's 6x-great-grandmother, Sarah, maiden name Hollingworth, but then Hyde (she married Abel Hyde in 1730).

[ElizabethHerts]

"German's son William died unmarried, the heir being his sister Martha, married to a probable kinsman, Thomas Moult of Chinley. Moult seems to have been an amateur craftsman of some talent, if a pedimented breakfront bookcase, included in the 1983 house sale, is anything to go by - he is said to have made it from oak felled on the estate.

Thomas Moult died in 1751, leaving another under-age heiress, Sarah, then but four. She is said to have met and fallen in love with her future husband, Thomas Goodman, when as a teenager, she called at the local pub for supplies and he was staying there, en route for a cousin's house in Manchester, a fugitive from debt. They married at Chapel-en-le-Frith on 2nd December 1765, by licence, Sarah being still under age. Her mother is said to have been ignorant of George's alleged circumstances until after the marriage, a fact which I find highly unlikely, given the positively forensic attention such matters merited in that era!"[/B]



I haven't been able to find the marriage between Thomas Moult and Martha Buxton to verify this.

[ElizabethHerts]

A lot of the records I have found are from Chinley Independent Chapel.

This looks like the burial of Martha, Thomas Moult's wife (formerly Buxton):
First name(s) Martha
Last name Moult
Birth year -
Death year 1774
Death date ? ? 1774
Burial year 1774
Burial date 16 Aug 1774
Place Chinley
Denomination Independent
Spouse's first name Thomas
County Derbyshire
Country England
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/496
Description DERBYSHIRE: Chinley (Independent): Deaths & Burials
Record set England & Wales Non-Conformist Burials

[Merry]

And here's Sarah, Thomas and Martha's daughter. Unhelpful lack of mother's forename on this record!

Name: Sarah Moult
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 15 Oct 1748
Baptism Place: Independent,Chinley,Derby,England
Father: Thomas Moult

[Merry]

I had wondered if Miss Buxton had been Mrs Someone-else before she married Thomas Moult (can't help thinking of Ted!), but as I can't see any marriages to any Martha that's pretty irrelevant!

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Merry.

The image on FMP for the burial of Martha Moult is helpful in that it confirms that her husband's father was John Moult.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA/RG4/0496/0/0148&parentid=TNA/RG4/BUR/85536

"Martha Moult widow of Thomas Moult the eldest son of John Moult of Chinley Naze.."

[ElizabethHerts]

I had wondered if Miss Buxton had been Mrs Someone-else before she married Thomas Moult (can't help thinking of Ted!), but as I can't see any marriages to any Martha that's pretty irrelevant!

Apparently Ted Moult was a descendant of this family! OH's parents knew him when they lived in Staffordshire!

[Merry]

Thanks, Merry.

The image on FMP for the burial of Martha Moult is helpful in that it confirms that her husband's father was John Moult.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA/RG4/0496/0/0148&parentid=TNA/RG4/BUR/85536

"Martha Moult widow of Thomas Moult the eldest son of John Moult of Chinley Naze.."

I wish all burials had that sort of information!

lol re Ted!!

[ElizabethHerts]

The children of John Moult of Chinley Naze are all given here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2972/40612_B0147787-00015/620896?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dUKNonConformistVitals%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln %3dMoult%26gsln_x%3d0%26msfng%3dJohn%26MSAV%3d1%26 uidh%3d9p3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Joy Dean]

Apparently Ted Moult was a descendant of this family! OH's parents knew him when they lived in Staffordshire!

I remember him! :)

Sorry I haven't found anything other than the facts that you and Merry have found.

[ElizabethHerts]

John Moult of Chinley Naze, father of Thomas, was buried in 1775 at the age of 88 at Chinley Indepdendent Chapel.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2972/40612_B0147787-00148?pid=621993&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dgmj1854%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1 %26gsfn%3DJohn%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3DMoult%26gsln_ x%3D0%26msypn__ftp%3DDerbyshire,%2520England%26msy pn%3D5260%26msypn_PInfo%3D7-%257C0%257C0%257C3257%257C3251%257C0%257C0%257C0%2 57C5260%257C0%257C0%257C0%257C%26msbdy%3D1690%26ms gdy%3D1718%26mssng%3DSusanna%26cp%3D0%26catbucket% 3Drstp%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3D9p3%26gss%3Dangs-g%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3D621993%26recoff%3D8 %25209%26dbid%3D2972%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D4&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gmj1854&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

I have a pedigree of the Moult family, but it has no sources etc and few dates!

This John is reputedly the brother of Sarah Moult who married Higham Hollinworth (OH's line).

When Sarah Hyde died, she mentions a brother Thomas Moult "of Chimley" in her will.
"And it is my further Will and Mind that all my Interest
right and Title that I have of in and unto a Certaine
Messuage or Tenemt. called the White Lyon Situate
in the Deans Gate in Manchester in the County of
Lancaster I Give Devise and bequeath unto my
Brother Thomas Moult of Chimley in the County of
Derby Yeo’n his heirs and Assigns for Ever"

[ElizabethHerts]

The marriage licence of John Moult:

Name: John Moult
Event Type: Marriage License
Event Place: Glossop, Derbyshire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original): Glossop, Derbyshire, England
Age: 31
Marital Status: Unknown
Occupation:
Spouse's Name: Susana Goodyer
Spouse's Residence County: Chester
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Marital Status: Unknown
Spouse's Occupation:
Spouse's Birth Year: 1697
Affiliate Film Number: GBPRS/STAFF/MARRLICENCE/004423/1
Affiliate Image Identifier:
GS Film Number: 007618958
Digital Folder Number: 007618958
Image Number: 00512

It's on FMP:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fstaff%2f007618958%2f00512&parentid=gbprs%2fstaff%2fmarrlicence%2f004423%2f1

[ElizabethHerts]

The will of Thomas Goodyer (alt. spellings), father of Susanna:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fchs%2f004012034%2f00157&parentid=gbprs%2fchs%2f748117870

She is mentioned as the wife of John Molt of Chinley.

[ElizabethHerts]

I'm getting thoroughly confused.

Alexander Hollingworth (son of Higham and brother of Sarah Hyde) had a daughter Sarah who married Thomas Goodman, silk dyer. The marriage allegation is on FMP. The marriage took place in Mottram-in-Longdendale in 1766.

[ElizabethHerts]

"Thomas Moult died in 1751, leaving another under-age heiress, Sarah, then but four. She is said to have met and fallen in love with her future husband, Thomas Goodman, when as a teenager, she called at the local pub for supplies and he was staying there, en route for a cousin's house in Manchester, a fugitive from debt. They married at Chapel-en-le-Frith on 2nd December 1765, by licence, Sarah being still under age. Her mother is said to have been ignorant of George's alleged circumstances until after the marriage, a fact which I find highly unlikely, given the positively forensic attention such matters merited in that era!"

This account seems to lack some accuracy! I need to check.

I'm confused with these Goodmans.

The marriage of George Goodman and Sarah Moult:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61409/RS00013341_4452055-00068/1337587?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dDerbyshireMarriages%26gss%3ds fs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln%3 dGoodman%26gsln_x%3d0%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3d9p3&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[ElizabethHerts]

So now I need to throw in the will of John Moult of Rochdale, surgeon:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=22307&highlight=John+Moult


"I also give and
bequeath all my real and Personal Estates, where ever they lie or
where ever to be found at the time of my Decease to my Relation Manuel Moult of the Neas
in Chinilley in the parish of Glossop and County of Derby Yeoman
and to my other Relation William Moult of Mellor in the said
County of Derby or Darby Yeoman and to John Whittle of Hollinworth
Hall in the Parish of Mottram and County of Chester Gentn in trust
as Executors of this my last will, and Testament, and its my Will
that they keep all my said real and Personal Estates together in one
joint Estate and pay or cause to be paid yearly to Sarah Moult or her heirs of her Body, the present
Wife of Mr Goodman of Eccles in the parish of Chapel in le frith
One seventh part of the rents, Issues and Profits arising yearly from and out
of the said real and Personal Estates, also to pay or cause to be paid yearly
to the aforesaid Manuel Moult or his Heirs & Assigns One other seventh Part of
the rents, Issues and Profits arising yearly from and out of the said
real and Personal Estates above mentioned, also to pay or cause to be
paid, yearly and every year to the aforesaid William Moult or his Heirs and Assignes for ever
one other seventh part of the rents, Issues an Profits arising yearly and
every year from and out of the said real and personal Estates
of Mine above mention’d, Also to pay or cause to be paid yearly &
every year to Susan or Susy Moult or Susan Fox the Wife of Mr Fox
of Edale in the County of Derby or the Heirs of Her Body, One
other seventh part of the rents, Issues and Profits arising yearly and every
year from and out of the said real and personal Estates of Mine
above mentioned, also to pay or Cause to be paid yearly to the joint Heirs of
the late Mr. Alexander Hollinworth of Old Hollinworth Hall, or to
his administrator for the Use of his said heirs one other seventh part
opf the rents, Issues and Profits arising yearly and every year from and
out of the said real and personal Estates above Mention’d, also to pay
or cause to be paid yearly to Sarah Hyde otherwise Sarah Hide
Syster to the above mention’d Alexr Hollinworth or the Heirs of
her Body One other seventh part of the Rents, Issues and Profits
..
arising yearly and every year from & out of the said Real and Personal
Estates above mention’d, also to pay or cause to be paid yearly and every
year to John Davies and Meriel Davis Son and Daughter of the late
Clarke Davies of Manchester, during their or either of their Natural
Lives, One seventh part of the rents, Issues and Profits aris-
ing yearly from & out of the said real and personal Estates above mention’d,
then at the Deaths of the said Jno Davies and Miriam Davies
I empower my said Executors to make an equal Division of all my
real and personal Estates among the Remainder of the Legatees
aforemention’d, ..."

so the Mrs Goodman here is wife of George, and maiden name Moult. Not the daughter of Alexander Hollinsworth!

[ElizabethHerts]

A few unresolved questions here:

1. John Moult, surgeon of Rochdale. Parents Thomas Moult and Elizabeth Grantham who married in 1715 in Bowdon, Cheshire. Where is his baptism?

2. Children of Thomas Moult who died in 1721 at Mottram-in-Longdendale.
No baptisms found
Sarah (I have a baptism for her but not sure it's correct.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61407/RS00013341_4452267-00301?pid=1943161&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dgmj1871%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DDerbyshireE arlyParish%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3DSarah%26gsfn_x%3D0 %26gsln%3DMoult%26gsln_x%3D0%26msfng%3DThomas%26MS AV%3D1%26uidh%3D9p3%26pcat%3D34%26fh%3D0%26h%3D194 3161%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gmj1871&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
of Whithough
John c. 1687
Thomas
William

Thomas Moult mentions all his children and their spouses in his will except for William. I have William from the pedigree from the Cheshire RO.

2. Thomas Moult, father of Sarah, John, Thomas and William. Who was his wife?
The pedigree names her as Ann Longden.

Oh, I have just been browsing the Chapel-en-le-Frith registers and I have found the marriage of a Thomas Moult to Ann Longden on 16th November 1686. Both of Whithough.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61407/RS00013341_4452267-00150?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d61407%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=RS00013341_44522 67-00319

Now is this the correct couple as parents for the four children?

[Joy Dean]

The only baptism I have found, so far, for John Moult son of Thomas and Elizabeth is
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JM8H-TYP
Name John Mould
Gender Male
Christening Date 20 Sep 1722
Christening Date (Original) 20 SEP 1722
Christening Place COLTON,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
Father's Name Thomas Mould

A fair distance from where the parents married, but not a million miles away.

[ElizabethHerts]

Joy, thanks for looking. I'll bear that baptism in mind. They didn't all stay at Chinley.

[kiterunner]

2. Thomas Moult, father of Sarah, John, Thomas and William. Who was his wife?
The pedigree names her as Ann Longden.

Oh, I have just been browsing the Chapel-en-le-Frith registers and I have found the marriage of a Thomas Moult to Ann Longden on 16th November 1686. Both of Whithough.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61407/RS00013341_4452267-00150?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d61407%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=RS00013341_44522 67-00319

Now is this the correct couple as parents for the four children?

If the baptism that you found for Sarah is the right one, then Ann Longden is not her mother as the baptism is 1679.

[ElizabethHerts]

Kate, this is why I'm not happy with it.

Now I have found a probable baptism for John Moult at Hayfield:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61407/rs00013381_4453478-00101/3610087?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dDerbyshireEarlyParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln %3dMoult%26gsln_x%3d0%26msbpn__ftp%3dHayfield%252C %2520Derbyshire%252C%2520England%26msbpn%3d1660658 %26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257C0%257C0%257C3257%257C3251%257C0%257C0%257C0%2 57C5260%257C1660658%257C0%257C0%257C%26MSAV%3d1%26 uidh%3d9p3&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

1686
Aprill 30 Joh filius Tho: Moult de Chinley baptizatus fuit

[ElizabethHerts]

I have a will for John Moult of Hough Hill:

John Moult of Hough Hill in the parish of Stockport, Chester - will made 1689 proved 1692

He names:
Barbara Moult daughter not yet 21 in 1689
Thomas Moult son
Sarah Moult his wife
children of Thomas & Sarah
Katherine Moult wife sole executrix

[ElizabethHerts]

John Moult of Hough Hill who died in 1692 seems to have been buried at Chapel-en-le-Frith:

1692

6 Aug John MOULT of Nase in Chinley died in Marple, Ches.

My geography isn't very good for this area and the references to Hough Hill and Marple are confusing. There seem to have been later Moults at Marple.