View Full Version : Anyone have Ancestry?
I am trying to help my cousin's daughter in Perth, to find her great grandparents in Scotland. They are going over to Scotland next month, and would like to do the usual cemetery and look for the houses their ancestors lived in. They tell me they think someone on Ancestry has done it, but I don't have a sub. If anyone does, can they find the following
(My uncle) William Merrylea Mitchell b 30 July 1903 (family living in Hazelbank Place Cathcart, Paisley, Renf.)
Alexander Mitchell b. 1905 (family living in Carfin St Cathcart, Paisley, Renf.)
Jean Henderson Mitchell b. 1908 (family living in Carfin St Cathcart, Paisley, Renf.)
Their parents Alexander Mitchell and Jane Henderson Crum. I am aware Alexander Mitchell remarried in Perth, but we are only interested in the Scottish side.
I have just discovered that Jane Henderson Crum was the daughter of the late Mr Wm Crum, and although born in Scotland, lived the greater portion of her life in Dunoon, Argyleshlre, Scotland, where she was for many years in the employ of Messrs. William Maltham and Co, (fishmongers), She returned to Glasgow on her marriage.
So the marriage may have occurred in Argyleshire (I have no idea where that is) - but as their first child was born in 1903, I guess the wedding would have taken place around then.
There's a marriage for Jane Henderson Crum on ScotlandsPeople in 1900. I don't have any credit on there to look at it though.
Thanks Merry for finding that, I couldn't find it anywhere. I'll look it up.
It's a start!
In 1901, Jane H Crumb was recorded at Stopework House, Queen Street, Dunoon. She was a 24-year-old book keeper living with her aunt, Mary Campbell - a 72-year-old shop keeper. Both women were born in Lanarkshire.
Argyll/Argyllshire is a huge Scottish county - stretching from the outskirts of Glasgow to the islands.
Dunoon is on a peninsula and, at the time, people would have reached it by taking a ferry from Gourock. The crossing is about 20 minutes.
Shona, does that mean there might be two of them, or might she just be listed under her maiden surname?
I didn't look for any other spelling than Crum when I search SP for a marriage :o
If that is her and not with her husband then finding his side of the tree will be impossible without their marriage cert, won't it? (I'm not clued up on Scottish research!)
Thanks Shona, when you say she was "recorded" -I presume that wasn't a census, was it a sort of "list of persons in the area" sort of thing? Or am I wrong. She must have married that year then?
I did find a Margaret Henderson Crum b 14 April 1839
birth: Glasgow , Lanarkshire, Scotland
death: 11 February 1901 Sale, Victoria. Australia
marriage: 1858 Victoria, Australia.
Could be related somehow but not a sibling.
The age is right 924 yo. And there were a lot of Crums (without the b) from Lanarkshire.
Yes, it was the 1901 census. Merry, it wouldn't be unusual for Scottish women not to change their names. Someone needs to look at the image on SP. Also the image for the marriage. Scottish marriage records give the name of both parents and when they married.
My cousins daughter has now got some credits (I had some but they expired, I was hoping they'd resurrect them for me).
She hasnt sent me any info on the certs yet, but she's found the following:
Marriage)
1 1902 MITCHELL Alexander CRUM Jane Henderson Kinning park Glasgow Cotu/Lanark 644/`4 0346
and then
this same entry came up 3 times
1881 Census
MITCHELL ALEXANDER M 33 Cathcart (Lanark) Glasgow City/Lanark 560/00 001/00022 & 004/00 040 & 008/009
I'll let you know what happens.
Jood - Scotland's People did allow people to reactive expired credits a few months back. I think I posted a thread on the subject. You could try to contact SP to ask them to reactive yours.
I already have, Shona, bit I might have to wait a few days tho, and as it seems cousin also now has credits, I'll have to wait and see what she finds out. She's in West Australia, and I'm in Victoria lol
Thanks for the advice you've given me, and Merry also.
1902 MITCHELL Alexander CRUM Jane Henderson Kinning park Glasgow Cotu/Lanark 644/`4 0346
How odd - is that from SP? I only found one entry for JHC but that was 1900. Your date seems better, but why didn't my search find two? (I know I searched up to 1905.)
I agree Merry, I looked it up too, up till about 1906, and nothing came up for me either - so this cousin was dead lucky!
She is asking me which census of the 3 she should order, they are all identical except for the numbers (Gros Data) - I wouldnt have a clue.
1881 Census
MITCHELL ALEXANDER M 33 Cathcart (Lanark) Glasgow City/Lanark 560/00 001/00022 & 004/00 040 & 008/009
lol I know what I did - the marriage match is there for me now in 1902, but I realised the search screen looked different. I now see I was searching in births not marriages before and there is a birth for a Jane Henderson Crum in 1900!
*slinks away from thread*
1881 Census
MITCHELL ALEXANDER M 33 Cathcart (Lanark) Glasgow City/Lanark 560/00 001/00022 & 004/00 040 & 008/009
isn't he a bit old? Or do you have more information from the marriage cert now?
Hi Merry - Have just woken up - its Friday here. Last msg I got from cousin last night (they are 2 hours behind us) is that she was going to apply for the marriage cert. Not sure if that happens straight away, or what. I should have an answer later today.
She is also waiting for papers from other family members, so I'll just have to be patient!
If she has credits for Scotland's People, she can view and print off the marriage record immediately.
That's good then, I should receive it in a couple of hours from cousin in WA.
SP will reinstate my 13 credits when I buy more. Only trouble is I only have one relative myself (Laughlan) in Scotland and have exhausted all avenues! I will get this Mitchell family sorted out first.
Still nothing re marriage certificate - but hoping to receive it today some time.
I believe a Heather Bone has a tree on Ancestry - is anyone able to look up the Mitchells on her tree please?
I don't know how to find a tree via the owners name, sorry.
I looked for people who have William Merr* Mitchell or Jane Henderson Crum* on their trees, but though the first name did appear, no one knew his parents and those trees were owned by other people. We don't yet know enough about Alexander Mitchell to be able to search for him, do we?
I think this must be Jane Henderson Crum in the 1891 census.
From Ancestry - so detail needs to be views on Scotland's People.
James Street, Millerstown Place, Dunoon
Mary Campbell, 66, b Glasgow
Jane Campbell, 14, niece, message girl, b Glasgow
Found some reactivated credits on one of my SP accounts, so had a look at the marriage between Alexander Mitchell and Jane Henderson Crum.
18 Sept 1902
Stanley Street, Kinning Park, after banns acc to Baptist Church.
Alexander Mitchell, bachelor, 69 Paisley Road West, Kinning Park, 25 spirit salesmen.
Jane Henderson Crum, spinster, Darrochaine (?), Dunoon, 25, fish saleswoman.
His parents: William Mitchell, spirit merchant, and Isabella Mitchell, MS Knowles.
Her parents: William Crum, hammerman (dec), and Marion Crum, previously McDonald, MS Campbell (dec).
Witnesses: Nellie Mitchell and John Gardiner.
kiterunner
08-08-14, 14:14
Jood, if your cousin's daughter hasn't previously had a free trial of ancestry, she should be able to take one out now.
I think this is the family in 1871:
Address: 6 Ferguson Building Shop & House, Canogate, Edinburgh
William Mitchell 26 Coal Merchant b Macduff, Banffshire
Isabella Mitchell 24 b Aberdeen, Aberdeen
Mary Ann Mitchell 4 b Old Mildreen, Aberdeen
George Snowler Mitchell 2 b Edinburgh
Child Umegisterer Under 4 Mo b Edinburgh
George is George Knowles Mitchell son of William Mitchell and Isabella Knowles according to the bap on FS 05 Sep 1868, Edinburgh.
Obviously Alexander would have been born a bit later.
1881 Liberton, Midlothian
Wm Mitchell 32 Coal Merchant
Isabella Mitchell 33
Mary Mitchell 14
Geo Mitchell 12
Wm Mitchell 10
James Mitchell 5
Alexr Mitchell 2
Lillia Turner 45
1891 1 Rankeillor St, Edinburgh
William Mitchell 43 Coal Merchant
Isabella Mitchell 44
William Mitchell 20
James Mitchell 15
Alexander Mitchell 12
Maggie Mitchell 9
Nellie Mitchell 6
1901 Auchentiber, Ayrshire
William Witchell 54 InnKeeper
Isabella Mitchell 54
Helen Mitchell 16 dau
Helen Mitchell 19 servant
Wow you guys have gone ahead in leaps and bounds - thank you so much. I did not expect you to use your credits up Shona, but I do appreciate everything you've both done.
I need to enter all this new information into the tree. The cousin will be so pleased that she can visit all these places. Did I tell you they were going to stay in Lanark (the cotton mill) just outside Cathcart, Glasgow.
It sounds interesting!
Meanwhile I will pass on all your finds to her. Thank you once again!
The hotel at New Lanark Mill? Lucky people - New Lanark is a UNESCO world heritage site.
It must be! I don't know she found it - must have been googling for a place to stay!
Durham Lady
09-08-14, 05:27
Jood, if you go to my FB home page, then to photos then albums and trawl down you will see an album named New Lanark Heritage Centre, Scotland of photos I took at the mill at New Lanark last year. It's a lovely place in a beautiful area.
Will do that Daphne, at first I thought it was a Mill they were staying in and visualised a round building hahaha
Shona's post #20 shows Jane Crum's mother had been previously married. This must be the right family in 1871 (before Jane's birth)
97 Burnsiide St, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
William Crum 30 Smallunre Daler b Town, Kilmarnock
Marion Crum 35 wife b Glasgow
Marion Mcdonald 14 stepdaughter b Glasgow
Colin Mcdonald 10 stepson b Glasgow
William Crum 5 son b Glasgow
David Crum 3 son b Glasgow
Robert Crum 2 son b Glasgow
Mary Crum 11 Mo daughter b Glasgow
James Brownlie 24 son cabinet maker b Avondale, Lanark
Janet Brownlie 56 mother b Avondale, Lanark
Isabella Hepburn 58 aunt b Avondale, Lanark
John Komp 30 boarder b Hamilton, Lanark
Plenty of relatives to keep someone busy! I would imagine James Brownlie should say half brother, not son, but I don't have access to the actual page.
Thanks for that Merry. What a lot of progress you and Shona have done for me. Many thanks.
So that would make Janet Brownlie the mother of Marion Crum?
I had just assumed she was William Crum's mother, but remarried (purely because it said mother and not mother-in-law), but of course she could be Marion's mother. I would imagine Isabella Hepburn is the sister of Janet Brownlie as they were both born in the same place. Would the census page show Isabella's marital status? That would be helpful.
FS has a marriage for John McDonald to Marion Campbell 01 Jun 1851 in Glasgow.
I haven't found Marion's remarriage yet.
(I found John and Marion McDonald in 1861 with the right children to match those with Marion in 1871)
Maybe this is Marion's second marriage?
Name: William Crum
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 15 Mar 1865
Marriage Place: Milton,Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland
Spouse: Marion Campbell
I can't get my head round this reverting to maiden name business! I was looking for McDonald before.
Would the census page show Isabella's marital status? That would be helpful.
It should.
Shona's post #20 shows Jane Crum's mother had been previously married. This must be the right family in 1871 (before Jane's birth)
97 Burnsiide St, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
William Crum 30 Smallunre Daler b Town, Kilmarnock
Marion Crum 35 wife b Glasgow
Marion Mcdonald 14 stepdaughter b Glasgow
Colin Mcdonald 10 stepson b Glasgow
William Crum 5 son b Glasgow
David Crum 3 son b Glasgow
Robert Crum 2 son b Glasgow
Mary Crum 11 Mo daughter b Glasgow
James Brownlie 24 son cabinet maker b Avondale, Lanark
Janet Brownlie 56 mother b Avondale, Lanark
Isabella Hepburn 58 aunt b Avondale, Lanark
John Komp 30 boarder b Hamilton, Lanark
Plenty of relatives to keep someone busy! I would imagine James Brownlie should say half brother, not son, but I don't have access to the actual page.
Find my Past list the Crum family and Brownlie family as separate households. William Crum's occupation is a smallware dealer according to FMP and John Komp is John Kemp.
I can't get my head round this reverting to maiden name business! I was looking for McDonald before.
There was lots of it about in Scotland, Merry.
Find my Past list the Crum family and Brownlie family as separate households.
Ah, well that's important to know!! No wonder I couldn't find any possible matches for William or Marion with a mother from Avondale!!
There was lots of it about in Scotland, Merry.
Was there any particular reason, Shona?
It's something to do with the fact that women didn't legally take their husband's surnames in Scotland, although they could choose to use his name.
This is the advice from Scotland's People.
In Scotland, married women generally retained their maiden surname in the records.
In census records, however, married women are usually recorded under their married name. There are instances though, where married women are recorded under their maiden surname, and a widow might revert to her maiden name after the death of her husband, so you should check both.
Thanks Shona - I feel a bit relieved I don't have any Scottish ancestors! :D:D:D:p
Hi girls, thanks for the latest input.
I had just assumed she was William Crum's mother, but remarried (purely because it said mother and not mother-in-law), but of course she could be Marion's mother. I would imagine Isabella Hepburn is the sister of Janet Brownlie as they were both born in the same place. Would the census page show Isabella's marital status? That would be helpful.
Are you referring to the post 31-1871 census to find Isabella's marital status?
You are lucky then Merry not to have scottish ancestors, not like me where the spelling of the name changes all the time (Laughlan/Lachlan/Lochlin) :D
Are you referring to the post 31-1871 census to find Isabella's marital status?
You are lucky then Merry not to have scottish ancestors, not like me where the spelling of the name changes all the time (Laughlan/Lachlan/Lochlin) :D
Yes re post #31.
I do have two completely separate branches of Smiths though. They never change the spelling of their name!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
kiterunner
09-08-14, 22:45
I do have two completely separate branches of Smiths though. They never change the spelling of their name!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
No Smyths or Smythes if you go back far enough?
I was given this
1861
Reg No: 621
RD: Avondale
Civil Parish: Avondale
Town: Strathaven
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Kirk Street
ED: 10; Page: 6; Line: 3; Roll: CSSCT1861_91
Isabella Hepburn 46 [b. Avondale. Farmer's dau]
Janet Hepburn 45 [do. Washerwoman]
James Hepburn 15 [b. Strathaven, Lanarkshire. Scholar]
It would seem Janet Hepburn was married (Brownlie) by 1871?
James is shown as a Brownlie in 1871 ????????
Refer msg 37
No Smyths or Smythes if you go back far enough?
Probably, but I've only got back as far as people born in the 1720s. Then I'm pretty stuck!
Well thats pretty good Merry - 1700s!!!! Especially with a name like Smith!
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.