Opinions, please!

[ElizabethHerts]

I'm investigating my Ayling ancestors, and in doing so I have to check research done by others.

The Ayling trees on Ancestry give the father of Thomas Ayling who married Mary Redman and lived at Stedham and Cocking in Sussex as William Ayling and his wife Margaret.

Everyone quotes a birth year of 1689 and Thomas being born in Stedham, but I haven't found any proof of that or his parents.

I have today received the wills of William Ayling, died 1724, and his wife Margaret, who died in 1736.

William's will mentions son William and daughters Elizabeth Collens, Anne Wigen, son John Ayling, daughter Margaret Carpenter, daughter Mary Smith, daughter Sarah Ayling and daughter Hannah Ayling. Also his wife Margaret. There is no mention at all of a Thomas.

Margaret Ayling's will mentions daughter Margaret Capenter, Mary Elliot, Sarah Adames?, Hanah Baxter. No sons are mentioned and her executors are two of her sons-in-law.

The only thing that is interesting that both wills mention property in Heyshot. My 6x-great-grandfather Thomas Ayling also left property there.

Am I right to suspect that Thomas did not belong to this couple, bearing in mind that there were numerous other Ayling families in the vicinity and same parish (Stedham)?

[Phoenix]

Does William's will leave nominal amounts to anyone?

Thomas is likely to have served an apprenticeship and not need anything from his father if he was born in 1689.

My feeling is that you are right, but you can't prove it.

[Jill]

Just searched for your Thomas in Stedham via my Sussex Family History Group sub and drawn a blank, though there are a mound of other Aylings (& variant spellings).

[ElizabethHerts]

Phoenix, just the children are named.

Jill, many thanks for looking for Thomas.

This research appears on its own website:
http://www.boldbelvoir.org.uk/ayling/family/

"Nicholas 4 and his family were obviously quite well-to-do, and his sons all had substantial possessions. One, Thomas, had an estate valued at 593 pounds, when he died in 1711, including lands at both Stedham and Rogate. Another son was named William (1649 1724), and he and his wife Margaret had nine children, some of whom moved away from the Stedham area. This included the four married daughters and a son Thomas who was born in 1689."

I fear the man who did the research may no longer be alive.

[ElizabethHerts]

Just searched for your Thomas in Stedham via my Sussex Family History Group sub and drawn a blank, though there are a mound of other Aylings (& variant spellings).

Jill, does it have a good search facility or do you have to trawl through parish by parish?

[ElizabethHerts]

Thomas was a yeoman. Would he have served an apprenticeship?

[Olde Crone]

Yeomen didn't serve apprenticeships, it is a condition rather than an occupation and as such, he probably automatically inherited any real estate. I have quite a few Wills where the eldest, or at least the inheriting son, is not mentioned at all because property transferred automatically by death under the "three lives" system.

OC

[Phoenix]

Unlikely. Pauper brats might have been apprenticed to learn husbandry, but farmers' sons would either grow up on the farm, or go round the neighbouring farms for a year at a time, learning the various aspects of farming.

[marquette]

Jill, does it have a good search facility or do you have to trawl through parish by parish?

You can do both - search by name, surname only, first and surname, limit by date or parish, or just trawl through each parish.

You can re-order the parish records by first name, surname or date, which makes picking up spelling variants really easy.

I cannot see any baptism for Thomas Ayling in 1689, nearest I can find is 1653, son of Thomas.

Let me go and check for William and Margarets Daughters.

Di

[marquette]

Phoenix, just the children are named.
"Nicholas 4 and his family were obviously quite well-to-do, and his sons all had substantial possessions. One, Thomas, had an estate valued at 593 pounds, when he died in 1711, including lands at both Stedham and Rogate. Another son was named William (1649 1724), and he and his wife Margaret had nine children, some of whom moved away from the Stedham area. This included the four married daughters and a son Thomas who was born in 1689."
.

Nicholas 4 seems to have had sons William in 1649 and Thomas in 1650 ("of Hookland", died 1711), both baptised in Stedham. Also Nicholas in 1642 and again in 1646 and a daughter Mary 1652. Nicholas of Hookland died in 1678 - buried in Woolbeding.


Still looking for William and Margaret's children
Di

[marquette]

Before 1700, the mothers name was not always recorded so its difficult to be sure. And I also think there was another William married to Mary having children at the same time in Stedham (some baptisms note "Minstead" while others in the same year have "the street" or "Yeoman" noted).

The only one I am positive about is
Hannah Ayling baptised 1703 Stedham to William and Margaret.

Possibles, all in Stedham
Elizabeth bap 1671, father William
John baptised 1683 father William
Margaret bap 1686 father William
Alice bap 1694 father William

I don't think William and Margaret had a son Thomas, unless he was baptised in some obscure place ! And if he's not mentioned in the Wills, then it seems unlikely.

Most of my Wills include mention of all children, even if they did not get any bequests (because of their wilful disobedience)

[ElizabethHerts]

Marquette, many thanks for your help, it is really appreciated.

Here are the children from William's will:

"Imprimis I give unto my Son William Ayling One Shilling
Item I give & bequeath unto my Daughter Elizabeth Collens to my Daughter Anne Wigen to my Son John Ayling to my Daughter Margaret Carpenter to my Daughter Mary Smith to my Daughter Sarah Ayling to my Daughter Hannah Ayling the sume of five shillings apiece"

According to other research, there was also a Nicholas.

Margaret's will mentions no sons.

Hannah is now Hannah Baxter.
Sarah is Sarah Adames.

[ElizabethHerts]

Hmm, if Thomas isn't William and Margaret's son, there are a lot of incorrect trees out there, and my tentative ancestral line needs reviewing.

WHERE were you baptised, Thomas??


Marquette, THomas Ayling and Mary Redman married on 26 June 1720 at St James, Stedham. Could you please confirm?

Wouldn't it be great if they said he came from another parish).

They had about 3 children baptised at Stedham, and the rest at Cocking.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Different Continent, Different Era, but my paternal 2xgrtgrdfther named 9 out of his 10 surviving children in his will, but not his oldest son, as he had already set him up in business .. there was no rift, as he was named one of the executors in his father's will ... so it did happen one has already inherited.
Interestingly, being a self made man, he didn't force them into a mould, oldest was a saddler, two were bankers, one was an agent, another was in mining, one a farmer ,one was a clerk/criminal !! - sent to Hong Kong for the good of his health!! didn't work .. came back and started backing horses again .. fortunately both parents were dead by then .. No he wasn't my grandfather!! Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

Julie, this is why I'm being wary, because the scenario you have is relatively common.

Further down this line is my Stillwell family. A father leaves varying legacies - far more for one son than for the other. The reason for this is that the son who gets less is already set up in his father's business.

I need to find some more documentary evidence for Thomas, which might give some more clues.

[tenterfieldjulie]

If they were easy to find we probably would lose interest Elizabeth .. sometimes ..

[ElizabethHerts]

There is a Thomas baptised at Woolbeding in 1700. It would just about work re. the time frame if he had been born the year before.


Where baptised:
All Hallows, Woolbeding.
07 Mar 1700.
Name: Thomas Ayling.
Gender: Male.
Father: Joh.
Mother: Unknown or not given.
Batch: BAP_C071341 - Woolbeding.csv.

Woolbeding is just 2 miles from Stedham.

[Jill]

Marquette, THomas Ayling and Mary Redman married on 26 June 1720 at St James, Stedham. Could you please confirm?

Wouldn't it be great if they said he came from another parish).

They had about 3 children baptised at Stedham, and the rest at Cocking.

They are on the Sussex Marriage index, 26 Jun 1720 Stedham, both of this parish.

[Jill]

A Hannah Aylin (no g) married Nicholas Baxter at Cocking, botp, 14 Nov 1721 (Bishops transcripts)

and this looks like one of the other daughters:
Extract from the Sussex Marriage Index:
Place: Archdeaconry of Chichester Marriage Licence, Date: 29 Sep 1713:
Subject: Margaret AYLING, sp Cocking
Spouse: John CARPENTER, bach Rogate car

Extract from the Sussex Marriage Index:
Place: South Bersted, West Sussex, Date: 29 Sep 1713:
Subject: Margaret AYLING, Cocking
Spouse: John CARPENTER, Rogate

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Jill. I suppose the Woolbeding one is possible as he could have married aged 20/21.

He is said to be buried on 5 December 1759 at St James, Stedham, despite living at Cocking. I don't think an age was given.

[ElizabethHerts]

A Hannah Aylin (no g) married Nicholas Baxter at Cocking, botp, 14 Nov 1721 (Bishops transcripts)

and this looks like one of the other daughters:
Extract from the Sussex Marriage Index:
Place: Archdeaconry of Chichester Marriage Licence, Date: 29 Sep 1713:
Subject: Margaret AYLING, sp Cocking
Spouse: John CARPENTER, bach Rogate car

Extract from the Sussex Marriage Index:
Place: South Bersted, West Sussex, Date: 29 Sep 1713:
Subject: Margaret AYLING, Cocking
Spouse: John CARPENTER, Rogate

Thanks, Jill, that's two of them.

[Jill]

Thanks, Jill. I suppose the Woolbeding one is possible as he could have married aged 20/21.

He is said to be buried on 5 December 1759 at St James, Stedham, despite living at Cocking. I don't think an age was given.

No age at burial but he is noted as "of Cocking".

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks for confirming that, Jill. I have his will so I know a fair bit about him from his marriage onwards. It is his early life which is a mystery.

He had a son John whom he made sole executor, but he is the only child for whom I have no baptism. If he were the eldest son he would have been born between 1720 and 1725. I wonder if the vicar at Stedham was a bit lax with his records.

I have been wondering if it is worth me taking out a year's membership of the SFHG and try to resolve some of my problems.

[Jill]

My membership has been well worth the money, though there are no marriages on their website, as they are all on the Sussex Marriage Index CD (it's on special offer at the moment as it's their 40th anniversary)

[ElizabethHerts]

Jill, do I need to be a SFHG member to order the marriage index?
They ask you for a membership number.

[marquette]

My membership has been well worth the money, though there are no marriages on their website, as they are all on the Sussex Marriage Index CD (it's on special offer at the moment as it's their 40th anniversary)

Mine has been too.

I was particularly pleased to find the baptism of William Martin, son of William and Elizabeth, even if there is still no sign of their marriage !

I have been able to find lots of OHs Sheathers and Ades from East Sussex, which tidies up the bits of his tree which only had vague dates given to me from others trees.

I must get the marriages CD !

I was wondering if perhaps in these small hamlets/villages whether they always had a clergyman, or shared with another parish ?

For example, the Tuppers are all baptised in Graffham, but suddenly for a few years, the baptisms happen in Woolavington. Could Woolbeding and Stedham have also shared a clergyman?

Or did they choose to be baptised or buried in one or the other, depending on which clergyman they preferred ?

In Australia, even now, some parishes share their clergy. In the old days, the ministers used to travel on a circuit on horseback and write up the parish registers when they returned to their home town.

[Phoenix]

In theory, vital events should be recorded in the right book, even if a single clergyman had charge of several parishes. Otherwise, there would have been huge bust-ups over who had to pay for paupers dependent on the parish. The local farmers would not have been happy!

In Norfolk, four separate parishes share a single churchyard which contains the ruins of one church and two surviving churches almost touching. The church for the fourth parish disappeared without trace centuries ago. The parishes were united benefices in various ways over the years. There was often a single clergyman in charge and he made valiant, not always successful, efforts to record the details in the correct register.

Until the poor laws were somewhat relaxed in the later 1800s, you could not chose where you had your children baptised unless you were sufficiently wealthy for it not to matter.

[ElizabethHerts]

When you first look at a parish register, you just don't know what you are going to find. Some entries are just a scrawl, and some are crammed so tightly together that it is difficult to distinguish one line from another. However, just occasionally I have seen beautifully ordered registers, sometimes with columns and lines provided, and the information meticulously entered. It was purely on the individual whim of the clergyman. I bless the clergyman at Wotton Underwood in Buckinghamshire at the latter part of the 18th Century who recorded extra details and parentage of the deceased, even when those parents were deceased themselves, enabling me to find the burial of my 4x-great-grandfather.

So far it seems that the Thomas Ayling baptised in 1700 could be mine (married in 1720), or his baptism was omitted from the registers, or is so illegibile as not to have been picked up.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Liza I just found recently that some B & Bs and a few businesses have put the actual records of Penshurst in Kent online .. you can scroll through them, enlarge them to view they are wonderful .. I found a burial entry for a Robert Smith coachman to William Perry Esq, which I think might prove that a story from the family is true, only the family were looking at his grandson who came to Australia and it was his grandfather. Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

Julie, it's amazing where you can find that extra snippet of information.
I'm suffering from overload at present, because every week something new and exciting seems to appear. I usually keep my desk quite tidy, but it has piles of paper on it and I'm trying to put all this new information in some sort of order.

I hope you can prove your story about Robert Smith to your satisfaction.

[ElizabethHerts]

I've just joined the SFHG and can't wait for the "package" to arrive so I can start using the databases. I'm hoping a year's membership will enable me to trawl through my Aylings, Andrews, Stillwells and others.

[ElizabethHerts]

My membership has now come through and I am now able to access the transcriptions of the parish records.

I have already trawled through the burials for Cocking and there is some very interesting stuff there. I could be gone some time. :D:D

[Jill]

Good luck with your searching :)

[ElizabethHerts]

It's quite fruitful, Jill. I'm concentrating on Cocking at present.

Thomas Andrew and Elizabeth Ayling had twelve children, and two sets of twins, so I know where that tendency comes from!