Bingham or Bangham?

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I have a longstanding brick wall with my ggg grandmother Ellen Bingham. She first appears on 27/9/1867 for her marriage to Samuel Stowell in Aldershot, listing her father as John Bingham decd. She is in Ireland in 1871 & reappears as a widow in 1881 and from then until her death, lists herself born c1842 Canterbury Kent. I had been unable to find her birth or any trace of her in 1851/61. I did find an Ellen Bangham born in 1842 Canterbury but her father was David. I found an Ellen Bingham in 1861 born 1836 Canterbury & also found the same one in 1841 living with parents John & Sophia & siblings Ann Frances & Jane, but I was unable to trace them after that. Someone found me baptisms for the siblings with the addition of Sarah & Albina on Familysearch in Fordwich Kent.

FMP have now made their Canterbury records searchable & i have been using my free credits to search for Ellen & have found a baptism 7/7/1836 for Ellen Bangham parents John & Sophia. I have also found a burial for a Sophia Bangham in 1843, a John Bangham in Blean age 65 and a Sarah Bangham (age29 born Fordwich) with 9 yr old daughter Albina & visitor 13 yr old Ellen. All this fits with the Bingham family I had found before.

Do you think that I have found my Ellen and family & that their name changed between Bingham & Bangham & she just got her age wrong?
I have been able to rule out the other Ellen Bangham as I found a marriage for her in 1866, although I didn't have enough credits to view the record.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Maybe she got sick of people calling her Bingham, instead of Bangham and decided to go with Bingham. There could be lots of jokes about Bang ham ..

[kiterunner]

I have also found a burial for a Sophia Bangham in 1843, a John Bangham in Blean age 65 and a Sarah Bangham (age29 born Fordwich) with 9 yr old daughter Albina & visitor 13 yr old Ellen. All this fits with the Bingham family I had found before.



Sorry, Lynn, but what do you mean about finding a John Bangham in Blean age 65?

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

The John Bingham I found in 1841 with wife Sophia, was a labourer aged 55, I found John Bangham labourer aged 65 living in Blean Union in 1851 born St Stephens Kent, listed as a widower which would fit with the burial for Sophia Bangham in 1843.

Julie I don't think she would have changed her name by herself it is the whole family that is swaping around. :)

[Shona]

Aldershot? Ireland? Looks as if there is a military connection...off to have a look.

[Shona]

Looking at the 1881 census...

Ellen Stowell, widow, 39, machinist, b Canterbury
Francis Stwell, son, 10, born Ireland
Douglas Stowell, son, 8, born Scotland
Marion Stowell, dau, 5, born Scotland

From FS: Douglas was born in Ayr on 13 Jan 1873 - son of Samuel James Stowell and Ellen Bingham.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Yes, that is the one. She used the name Bingham on her marriage cert & also on Douglas & Marion's birth certs, her husband was in the KDG but was dead by 1881.

[Shona]

You probably have this, Lynn, but just in case you don't...

Samuel Stowell was a trumpet major in the 1st Dragoon Guards (Kings). His service number was 1284 and in 1861 he was based at Bangalore in India. He was discharged on 8 July 1873 after 22 years and 159 days of service - I think in Ireland. He was of very good character.

Playing around with dates on Scotland's People, there is a Samuel Stowell who died in Ayr in 1875.

[Shona]

Samuel saw action in the Crimean war (Sevastopol) for which he was awarded a medal/clasp. The KDG then went to Lucknow to deal with the Indian mutiny. The regiment were based in Bangalore in 1860 before heading to China.

PS I am searching for Ellen, too!

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Thanks Shona, I do have most of that info although I'd be interested to know where you are finding it. The Samuel Stowell who died in Ayr is Ellen's husband, he left the KDG to join the Ayr yeomanry. I have the death cert & even details of where he was buried.

I am really interested in people's opinions on whether the Bingham/Bangham family are indeed the family of my Ellen

[kiterunner]

Who were the witnesses at Samuel and Ellen's wedding, Lynn?

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

J Wilson & Marion Pattle. Not names that I recognise

[kiterunner]

So, this is the Bingham family you have found in 1841, at Military Road, Ville of St Gregory, Kent:
John Bingham 55 Laborer Y
Sophia Do 35 Y
Frances Do 12 Y
Jane Do 10 Y
Ellen Do 5 Y
Ann Do 14 Y

and this is the John you have found in 1851, at Blean Union, Herne, Kent:
John Bangham Widr 65 Pauper Lab'r Kent St Stephens

and the Ellen you have found in 1851, at Dover Lane, Canterbury, Kent:
Sarah Bangham Head U 29 Laundress & Procuress Kent Fordwich
Albina Do Daur 9 Scholar Do Canterbury
Ellen Do Visitor 13 Scholar (Query) Do Do

And you want to know whether it is the same Ellen in both censuses and whether she is your Ellen who married Samuel Stowell.

Sorry to go over old ground but I find it easier to look at it with the full census details to refer to.

[Shona]

Thanks Shona, I do have most of that info although I'd be interested to know where you are finding it.

Date of discharge was taken from service records on FMP. They also have him on the 1861 Army list in Bangalore.

Military sites have details of where the regiment was based, where they saw action and what medals were awarded.

The address in Ayr was from a Post Office directory.

[kiterunner]

Okay, I think if I were you, what I would do next is look for baptisms of Sarah, Frances, Jane, Ann, and Albina, and see what surnames they have on their baptisms (plus check if Sarah's father is John, she could be Ellen's half-sister perhaps?). This could show if they kept switching between Bangham and Bingham a lot.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Elizabeth & Sarah 18/11/1821
Ann 21/5/1826
Frances 9/9/1827
Jane 8/2/1829
Albinia 15/5/1831 all at Fordwich Kent parents John Bingham & Sophia.
Yes what you said in your previous post is what I am looking at, thanks :)

[Shona]

J Wilson & Marion Pattle. Not names that I recognise

I think I have found something!

1861 census, Chertsey, Surrey

Marian Pattle, 48, head, married, fundholder, born Saleham (?), Surrey
Henrietta Pattle, 4, dau, born Ireland
Ellen Bingham, servant, 25, nurse, born Cantebury, Kent

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=KENRG9_420_423-0594&fn=Ellen&ln=Bingham&st=r&ssrc=&pid=6734118

So this ties in with the witness to the marriage between Ellen Bingham and Samuel Stowell.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

OMG!!!! That is the 1861 that I had found, which I had been unsure of as the age was out with the the censuses that I had, but the age does fit with the Bingham/Bangham family from 1841 & the baptism for Ellen :)

[tenterfieldjulie]

Woo .. well done ladies ..

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I've found a death for the Albina Bangham who is with mother Sarah & Ellen in 1851, Apr qtr 1856. I then looked for her mother Sarah in later censuses and found her in 1861 &1871 shown as Sarah Bingham. I don't have access to see the details but am fairly sure this is the same one. :)

Just used the last of my FMP credits to view Sarah in 1861 with a new daughter Sarah age 4

[Shona]

1861 Castle Street, Cantebury

Sarah Bingham, head, unmarried, 39, fundholder, born Fordwich
Sarah D Bingham, dau, 4, born Cantebury

1871 Tudor Road, Cantebury

Sarah Bingham, head, unmarried, 49, annuitant, born Fordwich
Sarah D Bingham, dau, 13, scholar born Cantebury

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Thanks Shona, I wonder how she beame a fundholder?

[kiterunner]

And does anyone know a more respectable definition of "procuress" (part of Sarah's occupation in 1851) than the only one I can think of?

[Shona]

And does anyone know a more respectable definition of "procuress" (part of Sarah's occupation in 1851) than the only one I can think of?

I have seen Ver Meer's painting, 'The Procuress', in the Old Master's Gallery in Dresden.

He painted what you're thinking, Kite. ;)

[kiterunner]

There's a Sarah Bingham death Jan-Mar 1877 Canterbury district age 55, and this National Probate Calendar entry for 1877:
BINGHAM Sarah.
Effects under £100.
29 March. The Will of Sarah Bingham late of Woodbine Villa Nunnery Fields in the City of Canterbury Spinster who died 20 January 1877 at Woodbine Villa was proved at Canterbury by Frederick Wright of the "Duke's Head" Inn Wincheap-street Canterbury Innkeeper the sole Executor.

[kiterunner]

There is an Elizabeth Bangham marriage in 1843 Canterbury district. Looking at the reference numbers on Kent BMD it seems that she married a James Bentley.
Jane Bingham marriage in Jul-Sep 1856 Canterbury district, but it doesn't come up on Kent BMD. She married either Jesse Coleman or Felix Finn.
And Frances Bingham marriage Jan-Mar 1859 Canterbury district, again it doesn't come up on Kent BMD but there is only one possible spouse listed on FreeBMD - a John Heslop.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Thanks Kate. I hadn't noticed Sarah's occupation in 1851 It is certainly intersting that she had enough money to bother leaving a will. she must have been good at her job :D

[Shona]

Thanks Shona, I wonder how she beame a fundholder?

Marion Prattle was also a fund holder...

[kiterunner]

Anyway, it's just possible that Sarah might mention Ellen in her will to confirm it's the right family. Not very likely I suppose.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

It is possible, can't afford to be buying wills on the offchance though :(

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

It occured to me that Ellen possibly met her husband through Marian Pattle, as in 1861 she is shown as married but there is no husband & her daughter was born in Ireland. I can't see what it says in 1871 for her husband's occupation but found him as a widower in 1881 occupation "Lt. Genl. Cavalry Active List", they appear to have married in Westminster where Samuel lived & Thomas Pattle came from London as well.

[kiterunner]

In 1871 Thomas Pattle is Colonel Cavalry then I think it says h. p. short for half pension. (his brother just above him on the census is Captn Retired Indian Army h.p.)

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Thanks Kate :)

[kiterunner]

Sorry, Lynn, I meant half pay, not half pension!

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Right thanks, either make sense really :)

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I now have copies of the burials for Sophia & John & the marriages of Elizabeth & Frances. Sophia's burial doesn't give any more detail for does list her residence as Northgate, the same as Elizabeth gave on her marriage which was only 3 days after. How very sad! Both Elizabeth & Frances give their father's name as John, which confirms that they are the right ones. The witnesses to Frances' marriage are George Felix Finn & Jane Finn, which answers the question of who Jane married in 1856.
I also have the marriage entry for John & Sophia in 1819, so now have Sophia's maiden name as well :)
I have found an Ancestry tree with a John Bangham c 1786 Canterbury, but no more details about him, but it does have details of Ellen Bangham who I mentioned in my initial post, whose father David is John's brother. I feel that this John Bangham is likely to be the same as mine, but will contact the tree owner & see what he thinks