View Full Version : A Christmas Challenge
Just seen this on the BBC website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20760550 and wondered if you lot wanted to have a go at finding out about him :D
maggie_4_7
19-12-12, 11:48
Link isn't working.
It does for me :o
Here it is again : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20760550
The paper snippet at 1min 15 seconds says he was the nephew of H C Cartman previously of Bury a bank manager. In 1911 Herbert Carr Cartman is a bank clerk and is aged 41 from Summerseat.
In 1871 Herbert is with his parents and they would be Capt Cartman's grandparents:
Thomas Cartman 45
Ann Cartman 42
Mary A Cartman 10
Thomas C Cartman 6
Herbert C Cartman 1
Those names are from the 1871. In 1881 there are no more sons, so would it be a shortcut to just follow the other boy, Thomas C?!!
These all seem to belong to the elder brother:
Births Jun 1865
Cartman Thomas Lawrence Bury 8c 447
Marriages Sep 1890
Cartman Thomas Laurence Bury 8c 719
Deaths Dec 1899
Cartman Thomas Lawrence 34 Bolton 8c 308
The marriage seems to be to Annie Probert in 1890. In 1891 they have no children.
If I had looked harder I'd have noticed Thomas b 1893 is with his uncle in 1911!! lol
So, if they need living relatives then there is a likely brother of Thomas (nephew of Herbert Carr), also named Herbert and aged 19 in 1911 who might have had children. If he doesn't have living descendants, then the uncle did have an elder sister Mary Ann Cartman aged 20 in 1881, so there might be someone living from her line.
So, we are after descendents of any of these:
Brothers:
Births Sep 1891
CARTMAN Herbert Bury 8c 614
Births Jun 1893
Cartman Thomas Bolton 8c 459
One of these two:
Births Sep 1860
CARTMAN Mary Ann Bury 8c 330
CARTMAN Mary Ann Bury 8c 386
The one who is Thomas's aunt says b Bury on the census. I'm not sure I know who the other one is.
Where are you all? I've finished by Xmas shopping! :D
This is probably the auntie:
Marriages Sep 1887
BRENNAND William Bury 8c 582
Cartman Mary Ann Bury 8c 582
KERSHAW Edmund Bury 8c 582
Thorpe Annie Owen Bury 8c 582
It would seem Captain Cartman died in WW2. He was a Captain in WW1, but those are the right parents and he is the only fit for age as I eliminated a couple of others b abt the same time.
CARTMAN, THOMAS
Rank:Lieutenant
Trade:Quartermaster
Service No:98219
Date of Death:02/07/1940
Age:47
Regiment/Service:General List
Awards:M C
Panel ReferencePanel 21. Column 3.
MemorialBROOKWOOD MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of Thomas and Ann Cartman; husband of Alice Cartman, of Whitefield, Lancashire.
Oh and Ancesty's Roll of Honour for WW2 give his initials as TMC which put me off for a second until I remembered he was awarded the MC in WW1!
I'm not sure of the right marriage. There's one in the 1930s to an Alice, not the groom has another initial (W). If that is the right marriage then there seems to be one daughter. I'm not at all sure it's the right marriage though,
There are a couple of likely deaths for Alice - one in Bury in 1975 and the other somewhere else at some other date! lol (forgotten now!)
Now I know why I couldn't see the right marriage!
Marriages Jun 1921
Cart[m_][a_]n Thomas Hardman Bury 8c 1125
Hardman Alice Cartman Bury 8c 1125
Kay Ada Lomax Bury 8c 1125
Kay Ada Lomaz Bury 8c 1125
Lomax Robert Kay Bury 8c 1125
So, they had three children b in Bury district between 1922 and 1928. I can't imagine none of those have descendants, so this would seem to be the line to follow.
Time to wrap something...........
Sue from Southend
19-12-12, 13:27
There's an entry in the Nat. Probate Calendar for him
Cartman, Thomas of Beech House, 59 Eccles Old Road Pendleton, Lancs, d 2 Jul 1940 on war service. Probate to Phoebe Hampson Greaves, widow.
Of his three children the first and second married and had children (at least five between them)
Looking at the male line because it's easier.....
The eldest son (b 1922) has two sons b 1952 and 1960. The 1952 one is on 192.com for 2013 (lol!). There's a likely match for the younger one only he has double-barrelled his surname and the record is old.
So, the 1952 man looks the easiest bet!
Edit, the second person is also correct as the double-barrel is with his wife's surname.
What do we do with this info?
Sue from Southend
19-12-12, 13:47
Contact the BBC?
But what's the betting they put it all in the skip originally!! (the sons, not the Beeb!)
lol Probably! Oliver was very cute though, so I would like to see them tell him they don't care, when he clearly does!
Anyway, I just emailed Oliver's school.
Fantastic! Let's hope they reply quickly :D
Looks as if we were too late as The Great War Forum have already done it all and contected the BBC yesterday! lol (nothing back from the school - I just googled!). I would have posted a link, but they don't worry about posting living persons info on their site! lol
Drat! I googled before putting the thread up but with the initial and Captain Cartman all I got was the link to the BBC and lots about South Park :o
kiterunner
19-12-12, 16:12
Seems like it was a good day to spend the afternoon Christmas shopping!
Only if you haven't finished yet! :p
It's been pouring with rain all day here!
At least it kept Merry out of mischief for an hour and a half :D
I was wrapping gifts at the same time :D You know how women can multi-task!!! :cool::cool::cool:
maggie_4_7
19-12-12, 19:25
It does for me :o
Here it is again : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20760550
Its working now for me a little to late of course :D
It wasn't before.
Just read all of this thread, having got back from Christmas shopping with Mum (in France - lovely lunch, too).
Cartman perished when the Arandora Star sunk off Donegal. I came across the story when digging for my roots on the Island of Colonsay. Bodies of the missing were brought by the currents and tides to the island. Cartman would have been guarding Italian internees to Canada. The Italians comprised many Glasgow residents.
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