Who was Florence?

[Phoenix]

In 1911, Sarah Rhoda Stagg is living with her daughter Elizabeth Jane Goldfinch, aged 35 (married for 15 years to Alfred Goldfinch, a labourer aged 43) and daughter Florence aged 14. They are all born in Portsmouth.

This is fine, except that I cannot find a birth for Alfred in Portsmouth. I cannot find a marriage in 1896. It looks as if Alfred married in 1891 (but I cannot find him in Portsmouth censuses before 1911)

There are two Florence Goldfinches born in Portsmouth. One is daughter of William and Ann. The other appears to be living in Warblington in 1901 with aunt Nellie Clunn, married aged 35, born Darthmouth Devon. A clue!

Guess what? I can't find Nellie before 1901:d

Elizabeth Jane STAGG died in 1912, so I don't know whether Florence was actually her daughter or not.

Can anyone find Alfred in 1901 or work out who Nellie was?

[ElizabethHerts]

Only birth I can find:

Name: GOLDFINCH, Alfred Joseph
Registration district: Portsea Island
County: Hampshire
Year of registration: 1879
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume no:2B
Page no:475

[ElizabethHerts]

There is an Alfred Goldfinch born c. 1868 in Malta:

1871 Census
GOLDFINCH, Alfred
PORTSEA ISLAND, Hampshire
RG10 piece 1133 folio 6 page 6

Dad is in the R.N.
Most of the family are given by initials. :(

[Shona]

Nellie Clunn - aka Helena Clunn - was born in 1866 and died in Portsmouth in 1931.

There is a birth of a Helena Goldfinch in July-Aug-Sept 1866 in Totnes district.

[Shona]

Do we reckon that Nellie Clunn (Helena Goldfinch) and Alfred Goldsmith are borther and sister?

[Phoenix]

Helena! Durr. I've been looking at every version of Ellen & Elinor I could think of.

Shona, it would make sense if Nellie and Alfred were brother and sister. I assume it was a naval family - off to check Elizabeth's ref!

[ElizabethHerts]

Oooh, look at this, Phoenix:

http://www.zefrem.demon.co.uk/goldfinch.html

You need to scroll down a bit.

[ElizabethHerts]

Helena Goldfinch 1867- Malta
Parents: James Richard Goldfinch and Mary Ann Huxtable Russell
Husband: 1887 James Steele Clumm

From the site I gave the link for.

[ElizabethHerts]

FMP have Dad's initials as T.R. but it should be J.R. for James Richard.

[Shona]

Helena Goldsmith married James Steele Clumm OND 1887, Portsea Island.

In 1881, she was living in London:

49 Rupert Street, Westminster
Richard O'Connell, head, 26, tailor, born London
Mary Ann O'Connell, wife, 27, born Portsmouth
Helena Goldfinch, sister-in-law, 14, domestic servant

[Phoenix]

Ooh, thank you both!

Marriages Dec 1887
CLUMM James Steele Portsea 2b 833
GOLDFINCH Helena Portsea I. 2b 833
Hogan James Portsea 2b 833
O'CONNELL Mary Ann E Portsea I. 2b 833

Mary Ann would appear to be the widowed sister of Helena and MA in 1871 in Portsmouth!

[ElizabethHerts]

Florence Louise Goldfinch 1897-Portsmouth, Hampshire
Parents:Alfred Goldfinch and
Elizabeth Jane Stagg
Marriage:1928 Wilfrid Walker

From the above-mentioned site.

[Shona]

Helena! Durr. I've been looking at every version of Ellen & Elinor I could think of.

My Auntie Nellie was a Helen, so searched for variants on that.

[Phoenix]

Florence Louise Goldfinch 1897-Portsmouth, Hampshire
Parents:Alfred Goldfinch and
Elizabeth Jane Stagg
Marriage:1928 Wilfrid Walker

From the above-mentioned site.

I think that has been taken from bmd and the 1911 census. It's an amazing piece of work, though.

It looks rather as if the children swapped partners with impugnity. Helena's husband is up in Cleethorpes in 1911 and I lose track of Mary Ann, so I imagine she is with someone else after 1891. Sounds about par for the course for my family.

[Phoenix]

Helena spent too much!

James Clunn clearly left her circa 1896 - in December 1895 he is refusing to be responsible for her debts.

[Shona]

Did Helena/Nellie divorce James? The 1911 census in Cleethorpes shows that he has been married for nine years.

[Phoenix]

Nothing formal, Shona.

[ElizabethHerts]

This is Alfred's father's baptism:

Day:9
Month:Jul
Year:1820
Son/Daughter:Son
Forename:James Richard
Surname:Goldfinch
First Parent:George
Second Parent:Elizabeth
Parish:Portsea St Mary
County:Hampshire
Record source:Hampshire Baptisms
Data provider:Hampshire Genealogical Society

Many of my ancestors/wider family were baptised at Portsea St. Mary.

[Phoenix]

Thank you, Elizabeth!

I will have handled that volume myself, many years ago, because several lines of my father's family owed their living to the Navy in Portsmouth, but as a year's baptisms will have filled a single book, so I am extremely grateful to those who did the indexing.