Disaster - brick wall has got higher!

[Merry]

BK6 updated from this thread

Sorry this is so long..........If you can't face reading it all, just go down to the bit under the ~~~~~~~~~~~ at the end!

I thought I'd solved this years ago, but the LMA records have disproved a theory I had, where I was too mean to get the cert. :o

I am trying to find the first marriage of Hephzibah PACKER.

Hephzibah PACKER was born in June 1821 in St Pancras, the dau of Robert Hazel PACKER and Ann X. She was baptised twice! The first time at Tottenham Court Road Independent when she was about 3 years old and secondly at All Souls, Marylebone when she was about 15. Both records give the same date of birth etc.

In 1854 Hephzibah had a second marriage to James BEARD. On the marriage cert she gives her own name as Harriet Hephzibah ROBINSON, widow, and her father as Robert Hazel PACKER, tin man. Also her brother, Robert Lewis PACKER was one of the witnesses, so I'm very happy this is the right Hephzibah. After her marriage to James BEARD she used the name Harriet on the censuses. By the time she died in 1873 (Q1), the name Hephzibah had been dropped altogether and she was just Harriet Beard (I don't have this cert though). <<<<UPDATE: this is wrong. She died as Harriet Hephzibah Beard in 1877!

Anyway......I have never been able to track down the previous marriage to Mr Robinson. I always thought this was it:

Marriages Dec 1840
ARCHER Edward W London 2 263
HAYWOOD Eliza W. London 2 263
MASON John W. London 2 263
MASON Mary Ann Wt. London 2 263
MOORE Elizabeth Sarah W. London 2 263
Packer Hephzibah W. London 2 263 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WILDERS George Husson W. London 2 263

above has four women and three men

and the following, below, used to have three women and four men, but some time recently FreeBMD has added another name!!! I had thought one of the page numbers had the figures reversed.

Marriages Dec 1840
CLARKE Jane W London 2 236
DAFFARN Ann W. London 2 236
DOODY Mary W. London 2 236
GOODALL Sarah W. London 2 236
HUGHES Charles Edmund W. London 2 236
MURPHY Jeremiah W. London 2 236
ROBINSON William W.London 2 236 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
SCHOLING John Frederick William W. London 2 236

but the LMA records show William Robinson married Sarah Goodall (both page 236!) and the Hephzibah Packer who married in Q4 1840 married Joseph Stevens who is the missing man for page 263 as his page has been transcribed as 265. This Hephzibah definitely isn't mine as her father is recorded on the marriage cert as Elijah Packer, basket maker. I have seen the baptism of this girl too.

So now I'm back to square one! lol

If only she had stuck to the name Hephzibah in normal life I might have been in with a chance. Any ideas, anyone??? :o

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Looking for a marriage for Hepzibah Packer b 1821 to Mr Robinson, before 1854, when she remarried as a widow. Events should be in London - Marylebone/Holborn/Islington/St Pancras areas.

Thanks.

[Joan of Archives]

Have you every found her on the 1851 census with Mr Robinson? Lol!

:rolleyes:

[samesizedfeet]

I'm struggling to find her on 1851

DId find this bloke though:

Wobbmin Robinson

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England


It's no wonder we struggle so hard

[Merry]

I have no sightings of her between the 1836 second baptism and her marriage to James Beard in 1854.

That looks like a nightmare Zoe!

OH has just pointed out a Harriet Packer on the 1841 in Marylebone who is the right age which might well be her. I think up to now I've always imagined she was a Robinson for both censuses, because of the spurious 1840 marriage (and I thought I was so clever working that out!! lol)

[Joan of Archives]

I'm struggling to find her on 1851

DId find this bloke though:

Wobbmin Robinson

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England


It's no wonder we struggle so hard

I saw that Zoe ! I thought it could be one of Jonathan Ross's rellies lol! :d

[Merry]

I saw that Zoe ! I thought it could be one of Jonathan Ross's rellies lol! :d

pmsl!!!! :d:d

[samesizedfeet]

THere's a female 'NARP' Robinson on 1851

Unfortunately the image isn't any help on whether it's her or not - no marital status, no occupation and she's lodging with a family called Hirsh.


Have you found Mr Beard in 1851 to see if she's anywhere near him by chance?

[Merry]

Oooh, I've got the wrong death for her *shock horror!!*

Deaths Mar 1877
Beard Harriet Hepzibah 54 Pancras 1b 43

*Hastily amends tree*

[Merry]

THere's a female 'NARP' Robinson on 1851

Unfortunately the image isn't any help on whether it's her or not - no marital status, no occupation and she's lodging with a family called Hirsh.


Have you found Mr Beard in 1851 to see if she's anywhere near him by chance?

LOL re Narp!

I have found James Beard here in 1851 with his first wife, Sarah Camp:

HO107; Piece: 1494; Folio: 421; Page: 25

[samesizedfeet]

Just found beard as well.

Not getting anything positive looking for Harriets/Hepzibahs in the same area.

I suppose we always have to consider that Mr Robinson could be have been husband number 2 or 3 and she's got a completely different name in 1851

[Merry]

I think 'Narp' should read 'Miss'!

[Merry]

.

I suppose we always have to consider that Mr Robinson could be have been husband number 2 or 3 and she's got a completely different name in 1851

*puts fingers in ears and hums loudly*

Glad to hear you are considering it! lol

[kiterunner]

Did she have any children, Merry?

[Merry]

When she married James Beard, Hephzibah was about 33, but she didn't have any children with him as far as I'm aware, but he had several with his first wife. Hephzibah didn't seem to bring any children to that relationship, so I guess she either never had any or they all died young.

[kiterunner]

I was just asking because I managed to identify a couple of "unknown" spouses of someone in my tree by finding the baptisms for their children in the ancestry LMA records yesterday. But I can't see any for children of the Beards or the Robinsons on there.

[Merry]

It's not looking good, is it?

This lot have driven me insane for years! lol Three or four families endlessly intermarrying as if there's noone else in London to choose from! When one man and his family move to Southampton, they still return to the original gene pool in London to collect a spouse. *sigh*

Mr Robinson seems to be the only outsider........

[Merry]

I'm just wondering about this couple, Samuel and Harriet in 1851:


HO107; Piece: 1510; Folio: 440; Page: 35


I tried to find them/him in 1861 (to eliminate) and/or 1841 with no luck yet, but I have to go out now.

[kiterunner]

I can't see any likely marriages between a Samuel Robinson and a Harriet at all!

[Merry]

I can't see any likely marriages between a Samuel Robinson and a Harriet at all!

Exactly!

[Merry]

What about this long shot?

There's a LMA baptism for a George Robinson, b 19th Dec 1843, bap 7th Jan 1844 at Holy Trinity, Gough Square in the City of London. Parents Samuel and Harriet and dad is a tailor, which matches the 1851 census record.

Their address is given as Pemberton Row, which from the 1881 census is in St Bride's parish, City. That was in West London District in the 1840's so this could be the child's birth reg:

Births Mar 1844
ROBINSON George W.London 2 272

There are numerous deaths around London that could be this child.

I've looked at the other 1851 Samuels in London and there's only one other, whose wife is Mary....Let's hope George isn't his with a previous wife!

I was thinking I could try for the birth cert with the proviso the mmn be Packer. What do you think? Maybe a problem could be that if that child wasn't registered and the birth reg I've posted is for a different George, then I'm going to think I have the wrong couple when the mmn isn't Packer!!

I'm feeling confused now!

[kiterunner]

Sounds worth a try.

[Merry]

I've looked at the other 1851 Samuels in London and there's only one other, whose wife is Mary....Let's hope George isn't his with a previous wife!


I've found an 1848 marriage for Samuel Robinson, tailor, to Mary O'Brien so this may be the other couple above. They were recorded as bachelor and spinster, so the chances are he wasn't the father in the 1844 baptism.

[Merry]

Sounds worth a try.

So, two years later I have the birth cert for George Robinson!

He is indeed the son of Samuel Robinson tailor of 1 Pemberton Row, St Brides, City of London, born 19th Dec 1843. His mother is recorded as Harriet Robinson formerly Packer (aka Hephzibah Packer!)

So, if anyone can find anything further about Samuel Robinson, tailor, b Dumfries abt 1814 who should have died before 1854 (when his widow remarried) then I would be very grateful. I still haven't found a marriage between Samuel and Harriet/Hephzibah either.

[kiterunner]

*reads entire thread again from the beginning several times*

[Merry]

lol! I'm amazed you don't remember every detail! :d

[kiterunner]

I don't even remember that thing I posted up about LMA baptisms!

[kiterunner]

There are millions of Samuel Robinson deaths between 1851 and 1854 but not many in London. One Jan-Mar 1854 in E London, one Apr-Jun 1854 Marylebone and one in Oct-Dec 1852 in Wandsworth. That's according to FreeBMD.

[Merry]

Oh dear ;(

I can't find Samuel Robinson except for on the 1851 census and at Pemberton Row for the baptism of his son.

[kiterunner]

Maybe he had an outlandish name similar to Hepzibah and changed it to Samuel! Only trouble is, if so then we have no clue what it was!

[Merry]

I am doubtful that Samuel and Hephzibah were actually married. I'm not too bothered if I can't find him elsewhere really. The main thing was to know that Harriet Robinson in 1851 is Hephzibah Packer, so I can stop looking for her!

[kiterunner]

The Samuel who died Apr-Jun 1854 was an unmarried butler, according to the London probate records (administration to his brother William).

[Merry]

Deaths Dec 1852
Robinson Samuel Wandsworth 1d 269

Above buried 2nd Oct 1852 at St Mary's Putney aged 6 days

Deaths Sep 1853
Robinson Samuel William Stepney 1c 333

Above most likely to be Samuel William Robinson b Q1 1851 Stepney

Deaths Mar 1854
Robinson Samuel E London 1c 21

Not sure about this one - there's a burial on FMP for a 90 year old on 8th Jan 1854 but the burial/abode is Finsbury which isn't this district, but there's no other reg for the 90-year old.

Deaths Jun 1854
Robinson Samuel Marylebone 1a 278

Unmarried butler (re Kite's prev post)

[marquette]

I bet you have it already, but I found George's baptism in the LMA records.

At Holy Trinity Gough Square on 16 Feb 1844 (Abode Pemberton St). Does this help with the area for Samuels death ?

I have no idea where Gough Square might have been.

Did you find Harriet Hepzibah in 1841 census ?

Most likely seems to be Harriet Packer b 1821 F.S. in Grove St Regents Park, in the household of Francis Walker, Ind.

His children were named Augustus, Amelia, Caroline and Diana.

Di

[Merry]

Yes, it was seeing the baptism (post 20) that led me to get the birth cert. Without the bap I wouldn't have known they had a child!

Trouble is, they had moved from the City of London by 1851 and after that I don't know where samuel went. If he did die before Harriet remarried then it must have been outside London (unless his registration went missing!).

[Merry]

That could well be Harriet in 1841, unless she is transcribed as Parker which a lot of the Packers are :(