Who was Derek?

Yeah I think it must have been a copy of the 'Adopted' birth certificate of 1928, everytime the GRO or RO issue certs they have a unique reference number for legal reasons obviously.

Its going to be difficult Joan I'm not sure you're going to find out where he came from unless like someone else pointed out, which I think is very possible, that he came from within the extended family and with him being so young it is very possible.

Its a shame his son hasn't responded.

But I expect the clues are there.

Edit to say: I don't know anything about adoption issues, but have you got that birth cert (the 1928 one) sorry if its obvious with the information you've given but I do get in a muddle sometimes.

Also was Henry Wicks married before Caroline or am I getting him confused with his father?

Thanks again, Maggie

Yes it is confusing!

As I understand it, I would not be allowed to see the 1928 certicate, because it is an adoption certificate.

H W did have an earlier marriage -he married Mary Symes in 1915, but she died in 1918.

I think you are right that Derek came from within the extended family, because the other child that HW "adopted", my mother's sister did also.

Maybe one day things will all fall into place!

[vallee]

hi Joan seems like you are getting closer ???? do hope so .
what area do you think this Derek was born?

[MargaretMarch]

Is it worth having another try to get the son to respond? Maybe he lost your letter or was preoccupied with other issues when you contacted him before. If you think he doesn't know some of the fascinating things you have found out perhaps you could encourage him to reply by giving him a tid bit or two with the promise of more if he responds?
Margaret

I think Margaret has a point I would give it another go. Its possible he doesn't actually know anything about his father's life and adopted family but perhaps he'd like to and you know more to tell him or perhaps he does know some things that he would be willing to share now.

Originally Posted by vallee

hi Joan seems like you are getting closer ???? do hope so .
what area do you think this Derek was born?

Thanks Val According to the form he filled in, Derek says he was born in London - (BTW, this is Derek, not my other mystery, Eric!! LOL)

Originally Posted by MargaretMarch

Is it worth having another try to get the son to respond? Maybe he lost your letter or was preoccupied with other issues when you contacted him before. If you think he doesn't know some of the fascinating things you have found out perhaps you could encourage him to reply by giving him a tid bit or two with the promise of more if he responds?
Margaret

Originally Posted by maggie_4_7

I think Margaret has a point I would give it another go. Its possible he doesn't actually know anything about his father's life and adopted family but perhaps he'd like to and you know more to tell him or perhaps he does know some things that he would be willing to share now.

Thank you M & M - I think I will try the son again - it may be that he finds it difficult because he doesn't know that I know about his family background -and doesn't know how to respond (his father was in a Hitler Youth Camp, and his grandfather, who may also have been my grandfather, made pro-Nazi radio broadcasts from Berlin to Germany during WW2 and was convicted of having committed offences likely to assist the enemy).

Or maybe he has simply disowned his family.

Maybe I should say in the letter something like -"I have been researching my family history for some time, and understand that there are things in the past which we may find unpalatable. So I will not be shocked by anything you tell me"


How does that sound?

On the other hand, the other child that HW adopted, my late aunt, reamined a Nazi sympathiser and a holocaust denier

So without knowing where his sympathies lie, it's a little difficult to know what to say

[MargaretMarch]

Originally Posted by Muggins in Sussex

Thanks Val

Maybe I should say in the letter something like -"I have been researching my family history for some time, and understand that there are things in the past which we may find unpalatable. So I will not be shocked by anything you tell me"


How does that sound?

On the other hand, the other child that HW adopted, my late aunt, reamined a Nazi sympathiser and a holocaust denier

So without knowing where his sympathies lie, it's a little difficult to know what to say

Muggins,

I think I would say something about you have some knowledge about what happened in the past and what the various people did and said/believed may or may not be something you/he agrees with but that's in the past and all you are trying to do is compile an accurate account of the family tree and maybe even set the record straight in some way.

It seems to me that regardless of what your ancestors did (and some people's have done a awful lot worse!!) it seems to me that getting the family history down correctly is quite an important thing and doesn't need to be judgemental.

Good luck!
Margaret

Originally Posted by MargaretMarch

Muggins,

I think I would say something about you have some knowledge about what happened in the past and what the various people did and said/believed may or may not be something you/he agrees with but that's in the past and all you are trying to do is compile an accurate account of the family tree and maybe even set the record straight in some way.

It seems to me that regardless of what your ancestors did (and some people's have done a awful lot worse!!) it seems to me that getting the family history down correctly is quite an important thing and doesn't need to be judgemental.

Good luck!
Margaret

Thank you Margaret- that makes a lot of sense

[vallee]

I did gather that Joan ,trust you to have a awkward family.
Maybe one day you will find your really royalty ??????but dont think I will curtsey :LOL

[Mandy in Wiltshire]

Hi Joan

I'm afraid that there is no way at all that a birth name and a name on the Adopted Children's Register can be connected. For instance, my birth name appears in the birth registration indexes and my adoptive name appears in the Adopted Children's Register, but unless I choose to tell someone my birth name, there's no way that anyone can find it out.

The Certificate of Adoption is a sort of replacement birth certificate and contains only details of the 'new' name and the adoptive parents' details, there's no reference on there to the original birth name. It is accepted as a legal document in the same way as a birth certificate (until I applied for my original birth certificate in my late 30s, my COA was accepted for my passport application etc). The COA is issued once the legal adoption process goes through the courts.

Sorry this isn't good news but hopefully it might help a little!