marriage by license hlep please

[MargaretMarch]

I'm researching a tree for a neighbour of mine and today received a marriage cert for one of her ancestors George Willies who married Mary Hurt on 23 Jun 1861 at St George's Church Manchester - by license.

The witnesses on the marriage cert are John and Mary Allwood who I found on 1861 census were the occupiers of the address (Hall Crescent) given by the bride and groom at the marriage. RG9; Piece: 2964; Folio: 112; Page: 17

I am trying to find the line back from Mary Hurt but am having difficulty as I only have her name and her father's name John Hurt occ: Farmer and I am thinking she has perhaps lied about her age. I don't think she's from the Manchester area and am thinking she was perhaps under age and pregnant when the marriage took place.

Is there any other paperwork relating to the license that I might be able to get and if so where from?
Margaret

[Joan of Archives]

Hi Margaret

From the couple of licenses I've looked at they give only a bare amount of detail (if any) about the father. You can find the marriage licence in the Records Office for that county. They may not have survived though. Sometimes copies can be ordered from the RO for a small sum, I'm about to order one myself, which covers 2 A3 sheets for about £7.

[Merry]

What happened to George and Mary? Are they on any census?

I've only ever seen one marriage licence and it would have been of no help whatsoever if it had been for these people.

Sometimes the marriage allagation may have survived and this might have the bride and grooms ages, if they are not on the certificate, but I think generally there won't be much more to help. Anything that remains should be at the local Record Office.

[MargaretMarch]

Thanks Merry and Joan.
From what you say I am not likely to get much more than I already have but I might just ask the Lancashire records Office if they have anything just in case.

George is next seen on 1871 ref RG10; Piece: 3463; Folio: 169; Page: 1 as a widower back in Nottinghamshire where he was born and was living in 1861 ref RG9; Piece: 2471; Folio: 62; Page: 21.

The child of the marriage Thomas Oldacre Willies was living with grandparents in 1871 ref RG10; Piece: 3533; Folio: 27; Page: 9.

I think I've found Mary Hurt on 1851 ref HO107; Piece: 2134; Folio: 236; Page: 16 and she is only 8 years old so at the time of the marriage she was only 19 years, father John is a farmer of 220 acres with 8 men employed so I guess he objected to the marriage!

Thanks for your help.
Margaret

[Merry]

Sounds like you have the right Mary, as her death in 1867 gives her age to fit with being 8 in 1851.

[kiterunner]

Have you tried looking to see whether John Hurt left a will? If he did then it may mention Mary or her son.

[Merry]

Have you tried looking to see whether John Hurt left a will? If he did then it may mention Mary or her son.

Looks as if his death was registered in Q2 1888.

[MargaretMarch]

Yes, Merry the death in 1867 certainly looks right.
Thanks Kite, I'll have a look for the will as it might be interesting to see if Mary's son was included or not.
Margaret

[Phoenix]

The whole point about marrying by licence was that it cost money.

Because no banns were called, a bondsman had to stand surety that the couple were able to marry.

The amount of information on allegation or bond varies hugely - both with time and with diocese, but you might well find the father is putting up the money for the bond.

[MargaretMarch]

Annoyingly John Hurt is single in 1841 census living with parents and then gets married and has all the children and wife dies before 1871!
Margaret

[Merry]

Annoyingly John Hurt is single in 1841 census living with parents and then gets married and has all the children and wife dies before 1871!
Margaret

That's what happens when you start doing trees for neighbours! :rolleyes:

[Merry]

John's wife's firstname is Mary!!!! lol

WILLIAM HURT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 25 AUG 1844 Epperstone, Nottingham, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN HURT
Mother: MARY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

[MargaretMarch]

That's what happens when you start doing trees for neighbours! :rolleyes:

Tell me about it! :)

[MargaretMarch]

Wow! thanks Merry. I was just about to order the birth cert from GRO - very good at spending other people's money:)

I had been on IGI earlier but obviously missed that one.

Margaret

[Merry]

I doubt John objected to the marriage, but he may have objected to the relationship before that! I think once a Victorian girl of some social standing became pregnant, the only thing on the minds of her family would be to ensure she married the man concerned and soon, and preferably away from local prying eyes, so marrying by licence elsewhere was likely to be his idea. Had the young couple run away to marry they probably would have had to wait for banns to be called to save money!

[MargaretMarch]

Merry, thanks I think what you say makes more sense now I have been told it cost money to get married by license.
I was looking at the IGI for Mary's birth and the only one coming up is one born 1827 Southwell to John Hurt and Margaret Cotterill but that's a submitted record. On these records where is it that the LDS submitter gets the information?
I think it must be right as the other boys are all baptised in Epperstone but if Mary was illegitimate from before his marriage to Mary senior then another parish might make sense.
Margaret

[Merry]

I keep looking at this:

Marriages Jun 1842
HUNT John Southwell 15 837
OLDACRES Mary Southwell 15 837

I realise that says Hunt, but just maybe the name got muddled on it's way to the GRO?

There's a Mary Oldacres bap at Woodborough in 1810 which is under two miles from Epperstone.

[kiterunner]

The information for a "submitted" record could come from anywhere or just have been made up by the submitter. If there is an exact date and place it at least gives you something you can check. The submitted entry for Mary just gives a year so it may just be a guess based on census information.

[Merry]

On these records where is it that the LDS submitter gets the information?


Could be from anywhere! lol (including from thin air in some cases!!)

[MargaretMarch]

I keep looking at this:

Marriages Jun 1842
HUNT John Southwell 15 837
OLDACRES Mary Southwell 15 837

I realise that says Hunt, but just maybe the name got muddled on it's way to the GRO?

There's a Mary Oldacres bap at Woodborough in 1810 which is under two miles from Epperstone.

I like that one very much as the child of Mary Hurt and George Willies was given the middle name of Oldacre !!
Well done Merry - you're a star :)
Margaret

[Merry]

the child of Mary Hurt and George Willies was given the middle name of Oldacre

I doubt I would have looked twice otherwise, but I was searching for Mary Oldacre when I saw that!

[MargaretMarch]

Great lateral thinking!
Margaret