MFMMF: James Harker (father of Anne Emmott, NOT Mary Holoron/Holoran)

[Janet]

Well.........

Taking advantage of an extra-long TOGG3 week, I pose the impossible question: who might my MFMMF be?

In "MFMFF: father of Robert Pickles of Cowling WRY" we mentioned the marriage of my MFMF, Robert Pickles, to Mary Holoron/Holoran in Dec Q 1853 at Skipton, WRY (9a 87), a second marriage for Robert that produced my great-grandmother Emma Pickles in 1854. I need to order that certificate, but have not yet done so.

Mary's father is the goal of this [extended] week's challenge.

I had started to look around and I thought signs were pointing in the direction of Ireland, but to be honest I really have no idea! With the Holoron/Holoran spelling I didn't find any likely matches in England, but the name could take many forms, some of which (such as O'Halloran) are common.

I have Robert Pickles bap. 9 July 1820, buried 2 Dec. 1878 at Kildwick-St Andrews, but I have no dates other than the marriage for Mary. Robert and Mary lived in Cowling.

This may be a bridge too far without at least getting the certificate first. Anyone??? :o

MFMMF: father of Mary Holoron/Holoran

Name – Unknown Holoron/Holoran

Date and place of birth - Unknown

Names of parents - Unknown

Date and place of baptism - if applicable - Unknown

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any - Unknown

Occupation(s) - if any - Unknown

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
Unknown

Date, place and cause of death - Unknown

Date and place of burial - Unknown

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable - Unknown

Memorial inscription - if any - Unknown

[Merry]

What if Holoron/Holoran wasn't Mary's maiden surname?

[Merry]

Ah, when you said:

I need to order that certificate, but have not yet done so.



I thouht you meant the birth cert, but I guess you have that and you meant the marriage cert?

[Janet]

No! ;(;(;(;(;(
I don't have either one, Merry, and this is therefore extremely premature.
The best I have is the index Dec Q 1853 – Mary Holoron/Holoran 9a 87, which I saw on FreeBMD and does seem to fit. :o
Not much to go on, eh? I shouldn't really be making this leap of faith... but thanks for inquiring, anyhow! I think everyone should go back to their Easter dinner leftovers now. :)

[Merry]

So Mary Holoran may have married the other Groom?

[Janet]

Why was I so sure of myself? Let me look again.

[Merry]

This would appear to be the missing bride:

Marriages Dec 1853
Emmott Nancy Skipton 9a [18]7

(page reads as 87 on the actual index)

Mary would appear to be the more likely bride as there is a death for her in Skipton district, but only a death for Nan* Pickles after the census, in late 1861.

[Janet]

Yes, thank you Merry, I think that was the very straw I was clutching at!
On another thread, ElizabethHerts had found me the 1861 census where Robert Pickles is already a widower:

Road Side, Cowling – 1861 census
PICKLES, Robert
SKIPTON, Yorkshire (West Riding)
RG09 piece 3186 folio 28 page 4
PICKLES Robert Head Widower M 41 1820 Warehouseman Cowling Yorkshire
PICKLES David Son Unmarried M 17 - 1844 Worsted Weaver Power Cowling Yorkshire
PICKLES, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 15 1846 House Servant Cowling Yorkshire
PICKLES, Emma Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar Cowling Yorkshire
EDMONDSON, James Boarder Widower M 26 1835 Joiner Cowling

[Merry]

I think that's the one where they are listed as Rickles!

I have been looking for John Hannan without any luck.

[kiterunner]

Can I just check - do you already have a birth certificate of one of Robert Pickles' children (preferably the one who is your direct ancestor) giving the mother's name as Mary Pickles formerly Holoran? If not then you would be best to get that certificate before getting Robert and Mary's marriage cert.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, having looked through your other threads about this family, I don't know whether you have got James Berry and Emma Pickles' marriage cert yet, or Emma's birth cert? I'm just wondering because on the 1901 census Emma Berry is a visitor at the home of Frederick Pickles age 38 born Cowling, Yorkshire, and going back through the censuses it appears that Frederick's father was John Pickles born about 1841-2 Cowling. Then on the 1861 census there is a John Pickles age 19 who is nephew of William Emmott age 42 born Cowling, so it looks likely to me that Nancy Emmott is the right wife for Robert Pickles, not Mary Holoran. I'll do a bit more digging later...

[Janet]

KiteRunner, I do appreciate your sleuthing. I will take this all in as soon as I can sit down to absorb it. I think you might have nailed it again but I do need to order some certificates, and your advice on which one(s) take priority is very useful. I feel a bit of a spending spree coming on. Thank you! And thanks again to Merry.

[kiterunner]

1851 census - Great House, Kildwick, Yorkshire (ancestry says it is Kettlewell, not sure if that's right or not)
John Emmott Head Mar 60 Hand loom weaver (worsted) Yorkshire Sutton
Mary Do Wife Do 64 Do Cowling
William Do Son U 22 Power loom weaver (cotton) Do Do
Sarah Do Daur U 18 Hand Do (Do) Do Do
John Pickles Grandson 8 Bobbin winder Do Do

I've just realised the date of John Pickles' birth doesn't fit with the possible Robert Pickles / Nancy Emmott marriage! Hmmm....

Also in Kildwick on the 1851 census Robert Pickles is a widower age 31 lodging with a family of Smiths. His son David (age 7) is with a family called Ford, also in Kildwick, and his daughter Ann (age 5) is nurse child to a family called Whitaker in Cowling.

[kiterunner]

So... in 1841 Robert Pickles is age 20 with his parents (David and Martha) in Cowling, then there is a possible Robert Pickles / Anne Emmott marriage Oct-Dec 1841 Skipton district. It's one of those with 8 names on the GRO page so we can't be sure who married whom from FreeBMD. Possible death for Ann Pickles Apr-Jun 1845 Skipton district (it's too early for age at death to be on the GRO index), the same quarter as there is a birth for Ann Pickles in Skipton district, so it could be that Ann sr died in childbirth or very soon after Ann jr's birth.

So, it looks as though Robert's first wife was Ann(e) Emmott, daughter of John and Mary, but was his second wife Nancy Emmott? There is a non-conformist christening listed on FamilySearch for Nancy Emmott, 28 Jun 1837 at Kildwick, parents John and Mary. But there is no Nancy with John and Mary in 1841. Also there is a married Nancy Emmott, age 24, on the 1851 census, so she might be the one. Or it could turn out that Robert's second wife was Mary Holoran and that Nancy Emmott is a red herring after all! So it seems to come back to the best thing being to get the James Berry / Emma Pickles marriage certificate, and Emma Pickles' birth certificate.

[Janet]

I need to pick through all of this again. There is probably a lot I can glean now.