Am i missng out with the LMA records.

[Glen TK]

Not that i could plump for an Ancestry sub right now but seeing as i have a(dead end) line from the Clerkenwell area pre 1837 am i missing out on a breakthrough?

[kiterunner]

Yes, though not all churches are included yet. I think you can search for free though and see if there is an entry for the person you're looking for, then if you find them you could buy some pay-as-you-go credits or use ancestry at the library if your local library has a membership?

[Merry]

hello Glen :D

[Glen TK]

Hi Merry :)

[Glen TK]

Yes, though not all churches are included yet. I think you can search for free though and see if there is an entry for the person you're looking for, then if you find them you could buy some pay-as-you-go credits or use ancestry at the library if your local library has a membership?

Looking at it i don't think the church i need is covered as yet, it's also quite a common name that i'm looking at with no real clues as to spouse or date which doesn't make it easy either, nor does the lack of Ancestry at my local libraries ('tis a Scottish thing ;()

[maggie_4_7]

Out of curiosity what church is it and what district?

[Glen TK]

It really revolves around my 2,3 and possibly 4xgrt grandparents, the only concrete thing i have is a baptism for a George Hay 18/2/1810 at St James, Clerkenwell. Parents being George Hay and Mary unknown.


Mary died pre 1823, George snr died in 1823, his will proven in April 1823 names four children (Sarah, Jane, Frederick Charles and George) along with his mother and a brother in law..........


This is the last will and testament of me George Hay of No 10 Clerkenwell Green in the County of Middlesex Clock and Watch Maker that is to say I give and bequeath to my mother Barbara Hay the sum of forty pounds to be applied by her in such mannner as she shall think best in or towards maintenance and bringing up of my youngest daughter Sarah Hay and as to all the rest residue and remainder of my personal estate & effects whatsoever and wherever I give and bequeath the same unto my Brother in Law Thomas Bates of ? Dorogate Hill [it might be Ludgate, badly transcribed] upon trust by sale

[Nell]

Hi Glen

I've done a quick look. No likely George Hay marriages to Mary in the "right" area or timeframe.

I expect you know that Clerkenwell was full of watch and clock makers!

[Glen TK]

Thankyou Nell

It's a needle in a haystck really, a few trees have George jnr in them but as yet there isn't anyone to crack the pre 1823 period at Clerkenwell, mind you none of them have really bothered with the 1823 probate records so they wouldn't know the names i have found.

[Nell]

Do you have birth dates for the children?

[maggie_4_7]

There's a burial for a Mary Hay 7th March 1822 at St James Clerkenwell is that her and do you have that date?

Edit to say: Sorry I should have said she's 65 years old, some Hays coming up in burials at St James Clerkenwell. Is this where you think the family originated about that time?

[Nell]

I have found some marriages at St James Clerkenwell but a lot later than the period you want.

Are you unable to go to the LMA?

[maggie_4_7]

Okay I have now seen the original image of George's baptism born Jan 30 1810 baptism Feb 18 1810 to George and Mary Hay at St James Clerkenwell. Problem is are they actually from there or did they just land there at some point?

I don't suppose you know that because if you did you wouldn't be asking us!

I don't suppose you have any inkling to George (the father) age! Because if they died in or about 1823 were they young?

[Glen TK]

Thanks Maggie

The only firm details i have are the baptism date of George jnr, his three marriage certs (all confirm his father is called George and a clock and watch maker) plus the details from the will for George snr in 1823.

George jnr has been found on all the census returns that apply, all give Clerkenwell or London as pob and all give 1809/10 as his year of birth.

I really have to work on assumptions beyond that, assuming George snr married c1809 and was of age gives a yob of 1788 but it could easily be as far back as the 1760's.

Being realistic i'm looking for a marriage between George Hay and Mary unknown sometime around or before 1810. Whether his parents/siblings come to light based on the details from the will (the mention of Barbara Hay and b-i-l Thomas Bates) is another matter but they are the only clues i have.

As for the LMA Nell, it's about a 750 mile round trip to visit from here, with only a limited amount of info i'm trying to piece things together before heading down the route of a possible visit or paying for a records search.

[Glen TK]

The only other angle i can think of relates to Thomas Bates, publican of the "Three Grapes" pub at some point, the problem there is that Thomas Bates is an even more common name than George Hay. Presumably if he is b-i-l he married one of the female members of the Hay family, that would give me another potential avenue but knowing my luck she would be either Mary or Ann :(

[Nell]

Ok, too far!

I can only say that in my research the further back in time you go, the less far geographically people are likely to have travelled. Husband has Clerkenwell ancestors too, who all lived and worked around Clerkenwell/Finsbury/City of London areas. I've found some info on the Old Bailey online (witnesses sometimes, not always in the dock!!!) as well as the usual parish registers/censuses. Trade directories might also help.