At a loss

[Ammanda Schutz]

I have been trying find the death of Jacob Schutz at some time between 1871
and 1881. He lived in St George Bristol in 1871. His wife died in 1878 and her death was at Clifton, Gloucestershire.
There are numerous ways to spell the last name and I think I have exhausted all I can think of, including the useless Soundex on Ancestry.
I would appreciate it if someone would give a pair of fresh eyes to this one.
Jacob was born about 1834 in Hessen, Germany.

[ElizabethHerts]

Ammanda, do you have the death certificate for his wife?
I ask because it will say whether she is a widow or not.

I haven't found him yet.

[kiterunner]

How do you know that he died before 1881, Ammanda?

[Ammanda Schutz]

The death cert is on the way but it will be a while before I get it, Elizabeth. It would be prudent to wait but I have been spinning my wheels on this one for so long I am hoping for a breakthrough.
Kate, in 1881 all of the children from the marriage are either boarders, two sisters, or an inmate of a work house for girls, one daughter, or at the Girls Home in Dowry's Parade, Clifton, Bristol , the youngest daughter. The surviving son I have not found in 1881.
From this I assume that both parents are dead. I don't know if Jacob predeceased his wife or not so I have spread the net back to 1871 when he was alive.

[kiterunner]

Is there any chance he left the children and went back to Germany?

[Ammanda Schutz]

Wow! That didn't occur to me. Always possible I suppose. I have found an arrival for a Jacob Schutz in 1849 at Dover. If this is the right person he had been in England a long time and he was very young when he left Germany. I also believe that he may have had an older brother who came over earlier but I cannot prove the connection beyond a doubt.
If he came so young he may not have had anyone left in Germany.

[ElizabethHerts]

Ammanda, do you have a marriage certificate for any of the girls? I found a couple of marriages yesterday, but I can't remember the years this morning.

The marriage certificates might state "deceased" if Jacob had died by that time.

[ElizabethHerts]

Magdalena Schutz
Robert Burrough
Jun qr 1887 Barton R 6a 177

1891 Census
BURROUGH, Robert H
BRISTOL, Gloucestershire
RG12 piece 1962 folio 94 page 10

[ElizabethHerts]

Dec qr 1886
Notton Edward John Bristol 6a 70
Schutz Helena Bristol 6a 70


1891 Census
NOTTON, Helena
BARTON REGIS, Gloucestershire
RG12 piece 1975 folio 17 page 27

[tenterfieldjulie]

Ammanda I am digging deep in my memory at the moment, but I am sure that there are a number of Hessen Regions in Germany. My ancestor Christoph Alt was born in Bannerod in 1828 and it was in Hessen Darmstadt. You might need more information to find records than just Hessen, especially as Schutz or Schultz is a very common name.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Unfortunately I don't know the town, Julie. That is one reason I long to find his death.
Elizabeth, those are a couple of the marriages for the daughters but I do not have certs.
I fear his death cannot be found and any connection to his parents in Germany is lost to me.
Is it odd that a death so late in the 1800's would not be registered?

[Merry]

The death may have been registered but the entry was not transfered to the GRO

Or, he may have died in a place where he wasn't known and so his name was not registered (this happened a lot in the days people didn't have anything on their person to identfy them)

Or, he was registered with completely the wrong name

Or, he may have left the country

Or, ........something else!

Sadly, even if you do find a death cert for him, if his death took place in England/Wales the cert won't tell you anything about where he was born etc etc.

[Merry]

You said:

The surviving son I have not found in 1881.

Have you found a death for the son who didn't survive? Which is the surviving one?

[Mary from Italy]

I was just wondering that. The father and son may have been together in 1881.

[Ammanda Schutz]

They had two sons named Henry, both alive at the same time. I am told this is a German thing! Henry (Harry) died at Bristol in 1876 and the other, Henry William, born 1864 does not reappear after 1871. I don't know what happened to him. He would have been 17 in 1881 so it is possible that father and son were together at some other location.
Jacob was a sugar baker and worked at the sugar refinery at Bristol. The same company owned a refinery at Whitechapel. Originally, Jacob transferred from the one in London to Bristol after the refinery was rebuilt. The first one burned.
Now you have me wondering about a possible move back to London, Merrry Mary.
Still, that wouldn't explain how the girls ended up in a workhouse and a home for girls. I would think he would at least take the youngest with him.
Going to check the London records again.

[ElizabethHerts]

On FMP passenger lists for people leaving the UK there are lots of Schutzes.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Yes, you can drown in the Schutz name in the US. If he had gone anywhere it would have been NSW but I doubt it. No record of him there and no family memory either.

[Olde Crone]

It would have been quite unusual for a widower to keep his children with him unless one of them was old enough to look after all the others. Just because the children were in an orphanage doesn't mean they were orphans, only that one parent had died and the other parent either couldn't support them or couldn't look after them.

OC

[Ammanda Schutz]

Thanks, OC. I guess I can't apply the standard practices of today to what happened more than 130 years ago. The two oldest girls would have been able to look after the younger ones but perhaps the family needed the income they earned rather than the child care.

[Ammanda Schutz]

I just received the death cert for Eliza Schutz. She died Feb 23, 1877 at 26 Thomas St, St. George, Clifton Gloucestershire.
Jacob was present at her death. Therefore he was still alive as of Feb 1877. I cannot find him after that date.