Rejected by the GRO

[Ammanda Schutz]

I am at a loss. I sent to the GRO for a marriage certificate but they say they cannot find the record.
However, I have found it cross referenced to both names.

Page Joseph Exeter 5b 195
Ley Elizabeth Exeter 5b 195

Does anyone have any idea why the GRO would not be able to locate it?

They did refund my money; nice of them but I would rather have the cert.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

It could be that there were more than 2 names listed on that page but the 2 you name didn't marry each other.

[Merry]

If the couple did marry each other then most likely they can't find the film. They have over 100,000 films to choose from so I guess occasionally one gets mis-filed!

If you are applying from another country, so getting a local certificate is problematic (ie from Exeter), it might be best to email the GRO and ask the reason they couldn't send you the cert, just in case someone investigating the situation leads to them miraculously being able to issue it!!!

[Merry]

I suppose you have rechecked all the details you gave? I only ask because when my OH had a rejected order and was moaning about it, I looked over his shoulder at the details he had given and they were all correct except the century in question!! :rolleyes:

[Olde Crone]

There is another reason, if all the details you have given are correct.

If the marriage was bigamous and was later found to be so, then the entry is suppressed and no certificate issued. The GRO will tell you there is no record of the marriage, because there isn't a record of a marriage, it was bigamous! the GRO will not tell you it was bigamous.

Is that a possibility in this case, do you know?

OC

[Olde Crone]

Ignore this post. I duplicated the one above.

OC

[kiterunner]

It certainly appears that the other couple on the page married each other, because on the 1861 census there is a Samuel Hill (Junr) with wife Clementina Mary Commins Hill.

[Ammanda Schutz]

I did wonder if I had put the wrong year, Merry, but for once I didn't make a mistake.
I am sure that Joseph and Elizabeth married each other. She was older by 8 years so I suppose it is possible that she had been married before. They were living together in the 1851 census, under his name, though they were not married at that time.
I will email them, they do give a contact in case the rejected are very downhearted and need solace I suppose, and give them them the rest of the details.
Thanks for all the help.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Incidentally, they just rejected another of my requests. I am having a bad GRO day!

[Margaret in Burton]

I find a good tip when ordering a marriage cert is to only enter the name of the bride OR the groom not both. You don't have to give both. It only takes a little difference in the names for them to reject it.

[Joy Dean]

There is another reason, if all the details you have given are correct.

If the marriage was bigamous and was later found to be so, then the entry is suppressed and no certificate issued. The GRO will tell you there is no record of the marriage, because there isn't a record of a marriage, it was bigamous! the GRO will not tell you it was bigamous.

Is that a possibility in this case, do you know?

OC

Oh, that is interesting :)
I recently discovered that an aunt of my grandfather married a bigamist; he was already married at the time of her "marriage". The record can be seen in the ancestry site. Fortunately, she found out very soon afterwards.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Thanks, Marg, that is a good point. I submitted a 'complaint' giving the volume and page but I fear it will not help. Perhaps I can reapply and just use the one name and date.

[Olde Crone]

Joy

I should have said that of course the GRO will have to KNOW that a marriage was bigamous to suppress it, so that means that only bigamy followed by a court case is suppressed! There are probably thousands of bigamous certificates being issued by the GRO because no one official knew the marriage was bigamous.

OC

[Merry]

And a contact of mine has a man on her tree who went to prison for a year for bigamy, but she was still able to get the certificate, so the system doesn't always work correctly even in that case!

[Mary from Italy]

I have a death certificate where the cause of death is murder; that was in fact the inquest verdict, but the defendants were acquiitted at the subsequent criminal trial, and the original entry in the death register was never changed.

[annswabey]

That's encouraging Merry. Just looked at a divorce file today where the groom had subsequently remarried bigamously.He was in prison at the time of the divorce, although whether this was for the bigamy, I don't know. Was worried that I might not be able to get the bigamous marraige cert. Hope it's another one that has slipped through the GRO's net!

[Joan of Archives]

I find a good tip when ordering a marriage cert is to only enter the name of the bride OR the groom not both. You don't have to give both. It only takes a little difference in the names for them to reject it.

I always do that & never put both & have only once in all my time ordering certs have I ended up with the wrong one :rolleyes:

[Ammanda Schutz]

Well, I sent in a complaint on the page provided by the GRO regarding the marriage I knew existed but they had failed to find.
Today: "We apologise that we did not originally produce this certificate."
Unfortunately they had already credited my account so I have to reapply.
I am going to take a page from Marg , and others, and use only the one partner but it will have to wait until we return to Florida.
Drats, and I so wanted that cert.

[Nell]

Might be worth applying to the Exeter Register office.

[MargaretMarch]

I have a death certificate where the cause of death is murder; that was in fact the inquest verdict, but the defendants were acquiitted at the subsequent criminal trial, and the original entry in the death register was never changed.

The fact that nobody was found guilty of the murder does not mean that it wasn't - just that either, they didn't charge the right culprit(s), or that the evidence wasn't strong enough to bring about a guilty verdict.
Margaret

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, obviously, but the death cert actually says "wilfully murdered by X and Y" - the two women who were acquitted.

[MargaretMarch]

Yes, obviously, but the death cert actually says "wilfully murdered by X and Y" - the two women who were acquitted.

Well I suppose maybe the inquest didn't have to consider the evidence in quite the same way as a jury in a criminal court would and also there would have been no counter evidence from the defence. It's a wonder the two women concerned didn't sue for defamation in view of what it says on the death registration.

Not sure what the test of any evidence is for an inquest - 'beyond reasonable doubt' or 'balance of probabilities'.

Does the the death relate to one of your ancestors?
Margaret

[Mary from Italy]

Not sure what the test of any evidence is for an inquest - 'beyond reasonable doubt' or 'balance of probabilities'.

Does the the death relate to one of your ancestors?
.

I assume it's balance of probabilities for an inquest, but my legal knowledge is a bit rusty :)

I don't think the women would have had the money to sue, even if it had occurred to them. The evidence against them was pretty strong; they were rather lucky to get away with it.

It was a case of infanticide; the baby wasn't a relative of mine, but one of my relatives helped the two women to cover it up by writing a false death certificate. I wrote an article about if for FTF magazine ages ago.

[Nell]

My gt x 3 uncle was named on a death cert as a murderer. The trial verdict was that he was innocent on the grounds of insanity, but the original cert still names him as a murderer.