Daniel Pugson, Shaw, Lancashire MFMFF

[tenterfieldjulie]

Name: Daniel Pugson
Date and place of birth: Abt June 1793 Ripponden, York
Names of parents: Daniel Pugson and Hannah Garside
Date and place of baptism: Baptism 12/6/1793 at Ripponden, York,
Marriage: 5 November 1820, St. Mary's, Oldham, Lancashire to Martha Stott
Occupation: Weaver and Overlooker
Addresses: Shaw, Oldham, Lancashire.
Baptism of children: 1821 Lion house, Shaw; 1823 Shaw; 1825 Lionhouse, Shaw; 1830 & 1832 Shaw; 1834 Birchshaw. In 1836 at Martha's death Sugarmeadow, Shaw, Lancashire.
1841 Census Sub district Oldham above Town, Reg district Ashton & Oldham - Found as Farson
- Daniel 45, Ann 5 (should be 20), Daniel 15, Edward 13, Len (Levi) 9, Joseph 7, Mary Statt (Stott) 25.
Date, place and cause of death: December 1846 Shaw, Lancashire
Date and place of burial: 10 December 1846 Holy Trinity Shaw, Lancashire aged 53 years
Details of will: Unknown
Memorial inscription: Unknown

[HarrysMum]

I found a Matthew Pugson age 50 in 1841......may be a brother.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Where Libby?

[HarrysMum]

Also a marriage in 1848 of a Daniel Pugson, Manchester.

[HarrysMum]

Where Libby?

Prestwich Cum Oldham
Matthew is a stone mason, married to Hannah.

[kiterunner]

There is a family listed with the surname Farson on ancestry on the 1841 census, don't know if it's the same entry you mention? It is impossible to read on the ancestry image but the transcription says Daniel 45, Ann 5, Daniel 15, Edward 13, Len 9, Joseph 7 and Mary Statt 25. Do the children's names and ages match your Pogson family? That "Mary Statt" makes me think it could well be the right family.

[HarrysMum]

How on earth did they get any names from that page????

[kiterunner]

Ooh, just thought to look for baptisms of Daniel and Martha's children on Lan OPC and they do match those 1841 names, except Ann should be 20, not 5, and "Len" should be "Levi". And I can't see a baptism for Edward. But it must be them, don't you think? The transcriber has done very well to get it as close as that!

[tenterfieldjulie]

On Lancs OPC I found a Martha Pogson death in 1836 aged 40 at Shaw.

[kiterunner]

There is a Daniel Pugson death Oct-Dec 1846 Ashton district, which would be the right district for Oldham. Can't see it on Lancashire BMD or Lan OPC to check the age, though.

[tenterfieldjulie]

On the Shaw Greenacres Baptisms - I found Pugson children of Daniel (Weaver etc) and Martha - Ann 1821, Henry 1823, Daniel 1825, Jane 1830, Levi 1832 and Joseph 1834. The ring in was Edwin born 1827 to Daniel and Mary (which I thought could be a mistake) but the confusion was that his occupation was down as a Mason.

[kiterunner]

So that 1846 death is likely to be your Daniel, isn't it? If you get the death certificate it will give his age at death which should help in looking for his baptism.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I think I stalled at that once before Kate, because there was supposedly another death of Daniel Pugson in Ashton I think in 1848. Daniel Pugson was quite a popular name in the area. I will go and have a look. What do you think about the baptism of Edwin?

[kiterunner]

I can't see a Daniel Pogson or Pugson death in Jan-Mar 1848, and after that Oldham had its own district instead of coming under Ashton.

Considering that "Edward" in 1841 I would think it very likely that Edwin belongs to your family. Did you see the actual register or just a transcription? I can imagine "Weaver" being mistranscribed as "Mason" if it was very badly scrawled.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I only saw the OPC transcription for the Baptisms Kate. Last night I was a bit muddled after a 7 hour drive. In the clear light of day, it makes sense that as Martha had died, an older niece/relation, Mary Stott, was looking after the children. The date of death of Daniel in 1848 was given to a cousin by a researcher, so it could have got muddled.
I need to buy that death cert and also possibly the marriage. I bought the Gray/Dillon marriage in 1838 at Prestwich in Lancaster and it gave me fathers' names and occupations, do you think Daniel's marriage cert in 1820 would give me that?

[kiterunner]

No, sorry, it won't. It will tell you what parishes the bride and groom were living in, whether either of them was a minor (if they owned up to it!) and the names of the witnesses. It's only post-1837 marriage certs that tell you the fathers' details.

[ElizabethHerts]

There is a Daniel Pugson death Oct-Dec 1846 Ashton district, which would be the right district for Oldham. Can't see it on Lancashire BMD or Lan OPC to check the age, though.

Burial:

Daniel Pogson
10 Dec 1846
Holy Trinity Shaw Lancashire
Aged 53

[ElizabethHerts]

Burial -

Levi Stott Pogson
16 June 1862
Holy Trinity Shaw
aged 1

[kiterunner]

Where did you find those burials, Elizabeth?

[ElizabethHerts]

NBI 3, Kiterunner.

I can't see a Martha, though.

[kiterunner]

So Daniel was born about 1793. Could be that baptism at Ripponden.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Great work Kate and Elizabeth. Many thanks. The age at burial ties in neatly with the baptism at Ripponden which gives his father as Daniel. Will the death cert in 1846 give his father's name?
I need to look for more records at Ripponden and see if I can find baptisms, marriages and burials in that area for Pugsons. I found Daniel's baptism on Family Search, so off to look there. Elizabeth, Martha's burial was on the Lancs OPC.
I am really thrilled, I thought it was going to be impossible with the state of the 1841 Census to find out much.

[kiterunner]

No, sorry, the death cert won't give his father's name. Now that you already have age at death, the death cert won't be so useful, although it will give you cause of death if you're interested in that.

[kiterunner]

Ah, I didn't think of looking for burials on Findmypast before, but I see there is a Daniel Pugson burial at Scammonden in 1818, age 73 (not viewed full entry). Scammonden is very near to Ripponden.

[ElizabethHerts]

The burial was 3rd April 1818. No extra details apart from age - 73.

The information comes from the Huddersfield and District Family History Society - they might be able to help you, Julie.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Kate that is great, if my Maths are right, that would make him 48 when Daniel born? Not impossible if his wife was younger, or there were quite a few older siblings.
Should I add what you and Elizabeth found re Census, death etc to my first post?

[kiterunner]

Yes, why not?

[kiterunner]

The Index to Death Duty Registers (on findmypast) would tell you whether the Daniel Pugson who died in 1818 left a will. Though of course as he died before your Daniel married Martha, a will might not confirm whether it's the same family or not. But it might say "my son Daniel Pugson of Oldham", you never know! (Also the Index to Death Duty Registers might possibly even show him as executor.)

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Elizabeth that is great to know. Elizabeth did you see that Daniel was married to Martha Stott? Didn't you have Stotts in your family too? When!! I get organised I will sort my brick walls and see if Huddersfield can help. The way Kate and you are finding things I'm a bit stunned. I have had so much success lately I can't believe it. You are all so generous, I really can't thank everyone enough .. One very happy little Vegemite here as the saying goes.. hmmh maybe that is Australian saying ... anyhow I'm very chuffed.

[kiterunner]

Found a site with transcriptions of Scammonden burials on, and it has a burial for George and Robert Pogson, sons of Daniel Pogson of Ing, Rishworth, 30 Aug 1787. FamilySearch has their baptisms at Ripponden 8 Jul 1787, so that gives us an abode for Daniel sr. Unfortunately the burials don't go past 1812.
http://laundsinnmuseum.co.uk/deanhead1746to1812.html

[tenterfieldjulie]

Wow Kate you are amazing. That is great.
I only wish that we could find the mother's name. (I was doing research for someone recently and the women were invisible here too..)
I bought a new full screen computer yesterday (I've been using my Atom Notebook) and when I get the software installed, I will buy one of the Genealogy programmes. I'm leaning towards to FMP.

[kiterunner]

Do you mean FTM?

[kiterunner]

Hmmm, that Launds Inn Museum site shows a burial at Scammonden for Hannah Pogson, wife of Daniel Pogson, 15 Jan 1797, abode Rishworth. Doesn't give an age.

[kiterunner]

So a possible marriage is Daniel Pogson / Hannah Garside or Garsed at Elland, Yorkshire, 4th May 1769 (from FamilySearch). Would fit nicely with the baptism of Henry, son of Daniel, at Ripponden in Apr 1770.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Kate No, I have Family Tree Maker - I mean Find My Past.
You are sure finding lots more serious twigs for the tree Kate.
There is a big gap between Henry being born 1770 and Daniel 1793. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an earlier sibling called Daniel who died and there were the male twins who died. Maybe they didn't bother about recording the girls lol. Seriously - Henry and Daniel were names that were carried through to the family in Australia.

[kiterunner]

Sorry, I thought you would already have got these, from FamilySearch:
Henry 8 Apr 1770, Mary 18 Oct 1772, Sarah 27 Nov 1774, Hannah 11 May 1777, William 25 Dec 1779, John 17 Jul 1782, Ann 16 Feb 1785, George and Robert 8 Jul 1787, Milly 26 Dec 1788, Joseph 16 Mar 1791, Daniel 12 Jun 1793, Martha 13 May 1796.

[tenterfieldjulie]

WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEE. I have been busy copying and pasting and then cutting out the extra bits. Then I got waylaid on the phone. Sorrreee. I haven't eaten even yet. I am so excited. That is a perfect fit. I shouldn't have been cheeky about the missing daughters as they are all named.
Yiiiiiiiiiiiipeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I hazard a guess that Daniel, born 1745, his father was Henry. (Probably not - he might have named his oldest son after the King.)

[kiterunner]

Yes, I think his father may well have been Henry. There is a baptism at Marsden or Almondbury 7 Jul 1744 for a Daniel Pogson, parents Henry and Sarah (on FamilySearch). Then a burial for Sarah Pugson, widow, age 75, of Darby near Ing, Rishworth, 26 Feb 1780 (on the Launds Inn Museum site). I must go and get some shopping done now!

[kiterunner]

Oops, and I just noticed Henry Pugson snr of Ing, Rishworth, burial 27 Dec 1777, age 85, occupation white piece maker, on the Launds Inn Museum site, as I was about to close the tab.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Kate you are absolutely amazing. I am awestruck. I have a cat and a kitten who wish I was still on holidays as I am dancing them around the room. There is going to be a very long phone call to my cousin coming up... I'd best have something for tea first. Can't believe how far you've gone back pre Census and Pre BDM ..

[kiterunner]

It could still do with something to tie it all together, though, such as a will.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Is the place to look for wills on FMP - the Death Duty Register?
Or would Huddersfield & District FHS have them? Of the museum site you found?
I bought wills and indentures in Bucks and Herts from their County Councils.

[kiterunner]

The Index to Death Duty Registers on FMP shows you whether there was a will (or estate that went to administration) but the actual will would be at a record office. The Index to Death Duty Registers can make it quick to find out whether there was a will or not, if you have the date of death (though it is organised by year of probate, not of death) but it can mean searching through loads of different pages, especially early on, so it's not always the best way. There are some Yorkshire wills indexed on British Origins and I know some are held at the Borthwick Institute in York. The Launds Inn Museum site does say they have some wills, so it might well be worth contacting them to ask.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Many thanks Kate I will look further into the wills. Perusing all you found a few questions. There were supposedly two boys George and Robert baptised 8 Jul 1787 and then died 30 Aug 1787. Do you think they are two boys or should it be George Robert, because it is unusual that they are both buried on the same day?
I recall the occupation white piece maker, but I can't remember if it is to do with weaving or pottery? I would have thought weaving?
I looked at the baptisms of the Pogson children in the 1841 Census, the two missing - Henry died 1824 and Jane died 1830. So the Farson family including Edwin/Edward is definitely the Pugson family. (The confusion with the occupation Mason could be that Matthew Pugson was a stone mason from Prestwich, cum Oldham)

[kiterunner]

I think George and Robert are two boys. It would be unlikely they would be listed separately on both the baptisms and the burials by mistake.

I keep meaning to Google for "Ing" but don't get round to it for some reason. I will have a go now, and see if I find anything more that way.

[kiterunner]

No, that was a waste of time!

[Val in Oz]

Does this help Julie?

Whitster
Various processes culminated in weaving on a loom.
The cotton cloth so produced is known as 'grey cloth', although the colour is more like
a creamy white until further processing.

To remove all the impurities, such as cotton seed, shell, and natutural waxes, together
with the residue of other applications, further treatment had to be given.
A Whitster did this as a service for the Hand Loom Weaver in the early days by dipping and possing (or stirring) the cloth into containers of liquid bleach (caustic).

Later, when the industry became mechanised, the term Bleacher was more used as the actual process was done by machines. Bleaching, by either method, would produce white cloth as a final result. This removal of impurities was necessary before dying the cloth to the required colours.

from Old Occupations website

[tenterfieldjulie]

Ooh that is great Val many thanks.
It would have been fairly dangerous using caustic acid and the smell would have been terrible. Later generations were weavers which was a big step up.