Where did they vanish to?

[Merry]

BK6 updated from this thread

Sorry, this is OH's family, so they are being particularly tricky!

Matilda Mary COTTON (b 27th Sept 1847 Spitalfields) married Thomas HAWSE or HOWSE on 27th Jan 1868 at St Thomas Stepney (LMA image on Ancestry). 'Full age' was given for both parties, though Matilda was actually only 20½! Thomas was an engraver.

Before this, Matilda lived with her parents in Spitalfields until at least the 1861census.

I've not been able to find Matilda after the marriage, or Thomas before or after the marriage. On the wedding cert his father is given as James HOWSE, Police Pensioner.

Can anyone see them anywhere?

[Merry]

Ah, 1851 census James HOWSE policeman, son Thomas aged 11 b Stepney

1861 census same people - dad beer seller, son Thomas aged 20, engraver b Stepney!

[Merry]

Oh, Doh - I've found them in 1871 now! lol With dau Eleanor aged 1 in Stepney. But I've been looking for ages!

[Merry]

But I can't find them in 1881 ;(

[Joan of Archives]

Merry are you talking to yourself? :d:d:rolleyes:

And where is your 20 1/2 in your signature? I miss that lol!

[Merry]

It was scaring me how often I had to change it (every three months seemed like every two weeks!) and then I saw a post of mine on GR from about five years ago and that made it worse, because I was a lot younger then!

Anyway, had I put up my 20¾ years, I would have to change it again next week! lol

PS Can you see Matilda?

[Joan of Archives]

No but I am looking now lol!!

:rolleyes:

[Merry]

No but I am looking now lol!!

:rolleyes:

Good! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Joan of Archives]

Oh dear I hope this isn't Eleanor :(

Deaths
Ellen Matilda Howse born abt 1869 death 1874 Mile End Old Town London, Middlesex

[Joan of Archives]

There's this Thomas in 1881 but he is a widower

Class: RG11; Piece: 472; Folio: 23; Page: 40; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341103.

[samesizedfeet]

Merry - have we compared EastEnd Cotton's ever?

[Joan of Archives]

Merry - have we compared EastEnd Cotton's ever?


Would that be Dot or Nick? :d:d:rolleyes:

[Merry]

Would that be Dot or Nick? :d:d:rolleyes:

lol!!

Zoe, I think we have compared before.....

OH's ancestors were from Alconbury Weston in Hunts. His 3xg-grandparents (William Cotton and Lydia, nee Clark) moved from there to St Pancras in about 1820 with the first four or five of their children. They had another two children baptised at St P.

I have traced most of them around the St P area, but they gradually branch out and OH's 2xg-grandfather moved to Southampton when his first marriage broke down. The majority stayed in London (except those who went to America!) around St Pancras, Marylebone and Islington sort of areas, but a couple of the women (from memory) went to the East End.

Joan, I'm pretty sure that is him in 1881 as listed next is Henry House an engraver, and I guess this is his brother, as he had a brother Henry two years older back in 1851 :)

But I don't see a death for Matilda.......This family are quite fond of separating, so Thomas might not really be a widower. Having said that, I am running out of space for writing down the names of people who married in to the Cotton family and then, apparently realising their mistake, left their OH and married someone else!! Surely I can't have ANOTHER ONE doing this! (or in this case it might be the Cotton who left!)

[Merry]

I had it in my mind that this child was another one of theirs:

Births Jun 1871
Howse Mary Matilda Stepney 1c 429


Deaths Jun 1886
HOWSE Mary Matilda 14 Mile End 1c 286

The re-use of the name Matilda whilst Ellen Matilda was still alive would be normal for this family and that way round - Mary Matilda - is the same as Matilda Mary's mother (Mary Matilda Clements)!

But if the above are the records for a child of Thomas and Matilda, where is she in 1881?

[samesizedfeet]

You're right - I think we have. Mine were miners from Cornwall and their children moved to the East End in the 1830s/40s. One became a "Dissenting Minister" (what the CofE vicar put on his marriage cert!) and married my 5 x great aunt who had LOTS money whilst his mother remained in Cornwall as a pauper.

[Merry]

Births Jun 1871
Howse Mary Matilda Stepney 1c 429


Deaths Jun 1886
HOWSE Mary Matilda 14 Mile End 1c 286


Can anyone see the above Mary in 1881, or the death of Matilda Mary Howse b 1847 (potentialy the above's mother) between 1871 and 1881? Her husband is down as a widower in 1881.

[kiterunner]

I can't see any likely death for Matilda Mary on FreeBMD.

[Merry]

Neither can I!

Another odd thing - nextdoor to Matilda and Thomas in 1871 is another Howse family, headed by Eleanor Howse, who I thought might be Thomas' sister-in-law, and her children. I wondered who the dad was (Eleanor is listed as seaman's wife), but I can't find the older children in 1861 not any of them after 1871, so any help with that would also be great!!

Here's the 1871 page:

RG10; Piece: 547; Folio: 5; Page: 4

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_546_548-0238&fn=Eleanor&ln=Howse&st=r&ssrc=&pid=12215268

[Joan of Archives]

Could this be Eleanor Howse in 1881?

Class: RG11; Piece: 463; Folio: 24; Page: 44; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341101.

[Merry]

Yes, that's her (widow :mad:) that's really great Joanie - thank you!

And 1871?? :confused::p

I just did a search of X Howse to Eleanor X before 1871 and I can't find anything, so can't pick up her OH's first name from that either ;(

[Merry]

Doh, I meant "and 1861? :confused::p"

[Joan of Archives]

You already had 1871 Merry ? :rolleyes:

I reckon he was George cos her eldest is named George lol! :d

[Joan of Archives]

Doh, I meant "and 1861? :confused::p"

*tuts* Some people want jam on it don't they? :rolleyes::d

[Merry]

*sobs* I can't find them..... *pleading emoticon*

[kiterunner]

There are a couple of possible baptisms on ancestry for the oldest two sons but their father is a Sawyer, not a seaman, and their mother is Ann which would make Eleanor a second wife, but that's possible.

George James Howse, born Jul 11 1857 baptised Jul 13 1859 St Dunstan & All Saints, Tower Hamlets, parents George and Ann, Old Road, occupation Sawyer.
Walter Howse, born May 13 1859, baptised same day as George James.

[Merry]

I tried looking for those and ended up finding George, sawyer, with those children in 1861, but his 'wife' is Ellen! lol

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=MDXRG9_283_287-1146&fn=Walter&ln=House&st=d&ssrc=&pid=5859719

Very confusing! Seems as if he had 'lost' Ann along the way and replced her with Ellen (can't see any marriage) and then went from sawyer to seaman?? Maybe he got a job sawing wood/general carpenter, or something, on a ship?

I will try and work out if he is connected to 'my' Thomas.

Thanks very much, Kate :)