Henry Morland Shrubsall

[Heather P T]

Can anyone find any trace of Henry Morland Shrubsall or his son William George Shrubsall prior to the marriage of William please? Henry Morland Shrubsall is shown as hawker on the marriage cert. Im beginning to wonder if he were possibly Irish?

Name: William George Shrubsall
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Spouse Name: Alice Elizabeth Harper
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Aug 1905
Parish: All Saints, Walworth
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Henry Morland Shrubsall
Spouse Father Name: Edmund Edward Harper

[kiterunner]

I would look but ancestry says I've exceeded my licence again *sigh* I'll just see if it will let me on on the laptop...

[Heather P T]

Thanks Kite

Theres an interesting one, just Henry Shrubsall in the 1881 and the 1901, cant see them in the 1891 yet (but I cant find my glasses, lol) born Sheerness and living Deptford, a stones throw from the above marriage.

I want to carry on, but OH due in any second and hoover still in same position in hall as when he left this morning :)

[kiterunner]

Sorry, I made the mistake of logging off on the laptop to see if it would let me on on this computer and now I can't log on on either one. I'll have a go later.

[Merry]

I want to carry on, but OH due in any second and hoover still in same position in hall as when he left this morning :)

lol!!

William George is 27 and b Brighton, Sussex in 1911.

[Langley Vale Sue]

Was Henry's wife Ann? If so in 1891 they are Milton, Kent with 'stepson' C A Cheeseman (25). Henry is a Bargeman. William isn't with them.


Scrub that................he is Henry B Shrubsall, sorry :(

[Langley Vale Sue]

William's army records are on Ancestry, but that's all I can find - apart from his marriage.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=1219&path=S.Sh.Shr.5708

[kiterunner]

William George Shrubsall's WW1 army papers are on ancestry (definitely the right person because it gives details of his marriage to Alice) and he gives his age as 35 yrs 9 months in Dec 1915. There are a lot of pages so I'll have a quick look to see if there is anything there that will help.

[kiterunner]

Ah, his army papers say he was born in Bermondsey, Surrey!

[kiterunner]

So - FreeBMD has a birth of a William George Shrubsole Jan-Mar 1879 St Saviour which looks likely.

[kiterunner]

Still looking through the army papers, in 1935 he signed a declaration that he had lost his discharge papers, giving his age as 51 and his birthplace as Brighton! But I would think the info he gave when he joined is more likely to be accurate.

[kiterunner]

Just found a death Jan-Mar 1880 Wandsworth for William George Shrubsole age 0, so I suppose we're back to square one! That 1879 birth reg must be for him, not the person we're looking for.

[kiterunner]

I can't find William or Henry on any census, though I suppose that's not unusual for a hawker. But now it turns out that 1879 birth isn't him, I can't find a birth for William either, so I'm wondering whether he started out with a different surname.

[Merry]

Still looking through the army papers, in 1935 he signed a declaration that he had lost his discharge papers, giving his age as 51 and his birthplace as Brighton! But I would think the info he gave when he joined is more likely to be accurate.

Hmmm, that fits with the 1911 where he is 27 and b Brighton. (def the right person as he has the right wife and his full name.)

Very odd.

[Heather P T]

Odd he gives his age at 35 in 1915 when he gives it as 22 on his married in 1905.

Oh I got excited about the one born in Bermondsey until I saw the post re the death.

Its very strange isnt it. I wondered if he were a Morland at birth. I cant find him in 1891. I did wonder if dad were in the army when he was born but then unlikely he would become a hawker I spose?

Many thanks for assistance people (Oh, and Merry, got the hall way hoovered and hoover put in cupboard just as dogs heard OH pull up :))

[Heather P T]

Well, found that couple in the 1881 in 1891 in Bermondsey : name mistranscribed

Henry Shruboall

BUT no kids with them :(

[Merry]

There's an Andrew Mor(e)land Shrubsall floating around who would probably be the same generation as Wm's father. I was thrown a bit as Andrew was recorded as a stockbroker on the marriage cert of one of his children (LMA stuff) but think that might have been a bit of tarting up as he was a packer of something a few years before in 1901!

[kiterunner]

Well spotted, Merry.

So, Andrew Moreland Shrubsall born Oct-Dec 1855 Milton district, Kent. Married Elizabeth Ellen Mair 28 Oct 1879 St Jude, Islington, occupation Grocer, father James Moreland Shrubsall, fishmonger.
James Morland Shrubsall died Apr-Jun 1896 Thanet district, Kent, age 83.


Olive Morland Shrubsall born Jul-Sep 1896 Cheltenham district, Gloucestershire. Wonder where she fits in? She got married in 1921 in Pancras district.

[kiterunner]

Andrew is with his parents (James and Elizabeth) on the 1861 census in Margate, children born Milton and Margate, but there is no Henry in the family on that census nor on the 1871. I can't find the family in 1851 (before Andrew was born), but it looks as though Henry isn't Andrew's brother so the Mor(e)land part of the name must come from an earlier generation.

[kiterunner]

And Olive Morland Shrubsall's father was Frederick, who was Andrew's brother.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has James Morland Shrubsall's baptism, 21 Feb 1813, Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Kent, parents Arthur and Isabella. Other children of the same parents: Jane 1821, Elizabeth Doverson Shrubsall 1806, Edward 1802, George Blacketer Shrubsall 1810, Andrew 1804, John 1816. Wonder whether one of them had a son called Henry.

[kiterunner]

There are some people on ancestry who have Arthur and Isabella in their trees, but they don't show where the name Mor(e)land came from and they don't have a likely Henry with son William.

[Heather P T]

Thanks for helping - this seems a real mystery doesnt it.

Cant understand why there seems to be no baps for Henry or William.

[Heather P T]

Any suggestions why these people do not appear to have been born please??

[kiterunner]

I'm guessing that William had a different surname on his birth registration, not Shrubsall. Or maybe his birth was never registered - it would be unusual at that date, but if his father was a hawker the family may have travelled around a lot and didn't bother much with officialdom.

It could be that Henry was registered without a middle name - there are a few Henry Shrubsalls on the indexes.

[Heather P T]

Thanks Kite, but it just seems odd when the Shrubsalls are obviously very into naming patterns - checking out bmd for Shrubsalls and variants, the group down on the south coast seem to add a middle (surname) to virtually every male child- and so on that no baptism or birth is showing up, nor can I find them on the census :(