Madame Ducroix - OH FMMMM

[tenterfieldjulie]

Name: Madame Ducroix
Date and place of birth:
Names of parents:
Date and place of baptism: Unknown
Marriage: to Monsieur Ducroix
Occupation:
Address:
Date, place and cause of death:
Date and place of burial.
Details of will:
Memorial inscription: Unknown

Daughter Amelia/Emilia/Emily married John McCrohon (4th Foot/Kings Own Regiment). In process of purchasing a marriage between Emily Banham and John McCrohon at Winchester. Hope it shows that she was a widow.

[Ammanda Schutz]

I hope it says something other than the big, fat nothing that we know now. Can't wait!

[Rosie Knees]

do you know when A/E/E was born Julie?

I put my best French accent on and imagined the enumerator writing 'Duckry'.

Found an Eliza Docwra 89 on the 1891 living Ramsgate.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Love the accent Rosie .. I'm sorry she was buried by then. From memory her first son was born 1829 and later they came to Australia. It's 11.20 pm and I'm a tad tired..

[Ammanda Schutz]

Julie: I got this from another researcher though I have not found very little to substantiate any of it.
Amelia remarried at the age of 44 in 1842 to Thomas O'Keeffe, a 55 year old convict farmer of Swan Reach.
In addition to their already combined family Amelia and Thomas had three children of their own. The first Margaret was baptized 11 April 1843, followed by Mary Anne b. 7 May 1845. Amelia's children Sydney, Francis and Sussanah had all originally been baptized into the Church of England. For some reason however on the 25th of April 1846 she had those three children, as well as John baptized again as a Roman Catholics (Adelaide had been baptized by an Episcopal Chaplain and
was baptized again as a Catholic on the 11th of November 1849). Six weeks later Amelia, then 48, gave birth to her last child Rose Anne on 6 June 1846.
She was buried 9 JUN 1846 in Hyland Cres. Cemetery, East Maitland.

[HarrysMum]

Ammanda....that death cert might be worth getting. The index doesn't give any parents' names but there may be either earlier children or former names.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Yes Ammanda that is what I was given by the Maitland FHG, but not in that detail. It only says that she married Thomas O'Keefe and had three daughters and was buried at East Maitland. I did a trawl of the Old East Maitland Cemetery but did not find a headstone. I also checked at the library which told me that there were no newspapers that early for East Maitland.

[HarrysMum]

Her death is in the index under Amelia Keeffe. I have to buy it if I was looking for her.

I can't find the marriage............but I can't find my Nation one either.

Julie............I remember one of mine is buried in a RC cemetery somewhere in the Hunter.

[HarrysMum]

According to the Hunter Valley Genealogy group,

if a Catholic died before 1853,
and buried at Hyland Cres (Hiland)
and didn't have a headstone,

they are not in the register.

[tenterfieldjulie]

It is possible that the headstone is there Libby and I didn't find it, or that it was there and disintergrated, or that it is now unreadable, as lots are. I'll buy the certificate many thanks, but I don't think there will be much on it somehow. Many thanks for finding it.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Received the Marriage Certificate and it says nothing about Emily Banham. It is definitely the marriage of John McCrohon, Sergeant in 4th Regt. of Foot to Emily Banham of this parish by banns. Emily signs with a mark. If it was the wrong name she wouldn't have known. We know for sure when an where they married, but not whether it was her maiden nameor surname. If we could find the marriage of Emily to Banham - the parents of the child born in Barbados, it would help.

[HarrysMum]

It is possible that the headstone is there Libby and I didn't find it, or that it was there and disintergrated, or that it is now unreadable, as lots are. I'll buy the certificate many thanks, but I don't think there will be much on it somehow. Many thanks for finding it.

I doubt there is a headstone Julie. All the Hunter graveyards have been well documented. Hyland (Hiland) Cres is completely done.

[marquette]

I did a quick Trove search but only found two mentions of Thomas Keefe or Okeefe at Swan Reach in the Maitland Mercury which started in 1843.

"Love the accent Rosie .. I'm sorry she was buried by then. From memory her first son was born 1829 and later they came to Australia. It's 11.20 pm and I'm a tad tired.."


Did you mean Mme and Mr Ducroix came to Aus as well as their daughter ? Whose first son was born in 1829 ?

[tenterfieldjulie]

The only thing we know about the name Ducroix, is that it has always been said it was Emily's maiden name. (Ammanda and I have both posted about the McCrohons). Briefly the McCrohon family came to Australia with the Kings Own Regiment. John was born 1795 Limerick, enlisted at Cueta as a 15 yr old, 25/5/1810. His service was 3 yrs in Portugal & Africa, 2 years in France, 6 yrs 391 days in West Indies (5/4/1819-1/4/1826), Married at Chatham in June 1826 and then served 1 year and 3 months in Portugal (where son John born) and then 3 years 6 months in NSW. After resigning from the Regiment, John joined the Police Force at Paterson in NSW where he was killed in a horse accident on 6/5/1839.
I have never seen documentary evidence of the birth of John McCrohon who was born in Portugal. I have his death cert which says he was born there. I wonder if there could be anything on the baptism...

[Ammanda Schutz]

Just logged on and missed all the fun.
Marquette: First born son of John McCrohon and Emily Banham was John Patrick Mccrohon born Portugal 25-Jul-1827.
No, the DuCroix parents did not come to Australia. We don't even know if DuCroix was Emily's surname.
When the marriage record was found for John McCrohon and Emily Banham it was the first anyone knew that DuCroix was not her name. Julie and I had hoped that the certificate would give a clue if she was single or a window. If a widow then there is a chance that DuCroix was her maiden name.
I am convinced that this is their marriage, especially as John was just back from the West Indies and the first born came alone in just over a year after the regiment was sent to Portugal.
If the certificate says that Emily Banham was 'of the Parish' then she was from St Thomas Winchester. That is a clue. Back to the Hampshire records.

[tenterfieldjulie]

We cross posted Ammanda. I only think "of this parish" means she lived there, not that she was born there, because it also says that John McCrohon was of this parish. We know he was born in Limerick and had only got back from the West Indies on 1 April 1826 and they were married mid June.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Thanks for looking, Libby. I did not find her marriage to O'Keeffe but I think I found the marriage of Rose Anne O'Keeffe to James Fitzgerald in 1875 at Morpeth. They had a bunch of kids.
Margaret may have married a William Sharpe and had six kids at Liverpool and one at Morpeth.

[HarrysMum]

I think you only had to be in the parish a very short time to be "of the parish". Three months comes to mind, but I've no idea why.

You all play with this....I've got to go out.

PS.......I'd still buy that death cert on the off chance.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Hey, Julie: Humm! I see what you mean. I wonder, if the regiment was in Chatham, why he was living in Winchester. On leave and courting his lady love?
I have had no luck with the possible marriage of Emily to Thomas, I think was his name, Banham. Even checking all the spelling variations.
It is very disappointing that there was no more information on the certificate but at least I am convinced that this is the marriage as it all fits. Thanks for ordering it Julie.
Libby said she found Amelia O'keeffe on the index. Do you know where she found the record?
I am not thinking very clearly as it is late here. Boy, must be really late, or early in Oz.
Off to bed. I'll think about it tomorrow, as tomorrow is another day.
Good night Scarlet.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Yes I will buy the death cert Libby. I'm wondering if I should buy an original or a cheap transcript?
The marriage is: John McCrohon of this Parish, Sergeant in 4th Reg of Foot and Emily Banham of this Parish, were married by Banns 23/6/1826 - John McCrohon and Emily Banham (her mark).
Have you sighted John's birth in Portugal Ammanda?

[Ammanda Schutz]

Got it Julie.

[HarrysMum]

Sorry guys....I'm not supposed to be here. I'm supossed to be at a wedding....lol

The death is in the NSW Index under Amelia Keeffe (aged 48) in that year you have a couple of pages ago......Was it 1846??? The same one you have anyway.

If it was Hyland Cres and she was RC, it won't be in the register for the graves.

I have looked through the Hunter/Maitland burials and can't find her so I'd say that's what's happened.

I'm really outa here now......

Check the transcript has EXACTLY what's on the cert........because it's the 'little things' you want to check.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Libby, Di and Ammanda, I've found out more about the O'Keefe connection than I could find in Maitland. Yes I think I'll pay the few extra dollars and get a copy from the BDM Registrar.

[marquette]

Hi again, I'm just back from helping to set up for my nieces 21st, in the pouring rain.

Don't pay for a copy from the Registrar - is just a transcription of the parish burial register - as it's early church records - I think I can look them up on the microfilm at Parramatta LHS for free. It won't say much as in 1846 it will just be the burial record.

I am interested partly because my Brazill/Dawson/Rodford connections are from Morpeth and Maitland, and my Collis family were partly from Winchester. The Hampshire records available online at present are almost non-existent. They contributed nothing to the NBI2 and but don't know about NBI3.

Di

[tenterfieldjulie]

Hi Di, Yes it is frustrating at times isn't it. You get spoilt when many things are online and then the folk here are so helpful in other areas. I purchased the actual copy of the marriage from the Register of St. Thomas at Winchester through the Hampshire RO. It cost 6 pounds. I'm sorry that I didn't know of the marriage last year when I had two free days in Winchester. Kathleen and I did have a lovely time though and caught the bus out to Jane Austen's house. It is a fascinating area.
I must be addled, as I forgot Emily/Amelia's burial was pre 1856. I can find it at our Library... If I can find the reel lol Thanks Di. I will pm you.

[marquette]

I searched for Emily Banham on the new LDS site and got this one:

Adélaïde Emélie Bienaimée
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 15 Jun 1797
baptism/christening place: St-Jacques-du-Haut-Pas, Paris, Seine, France
birth date: 14 Jun 1797
father's name: Jean Charles Félix Bienaimée
mother's name: Claude Françoise Nelatou

-the age is about right, and the French name could be anglicised to Banham. But its nothing like Ducroix.

Di

[tenterfieldjulie]

Wow Di, That is interesting. I've got to go out now. I wonder whether they put her name on the baptism of John in Portugal... Must go. Will talk later. Many thanks.

[HarrysMum]

Back again..........

Julie, I use the Hunter Valley Genealogy forum. They may know something. What about any of the O'Keeffe children?? Have you tried to find them?? That could be another angle.

[kiterunner]

I have had no luck with the possible marriage of Emily to Thomas, I think was his name, Banham. Even checking all the spelling variations.


It was James, wasn't it?

[Ammanda Schutz]

Yes, it was James. I was to tired to call it up so took a guess.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Di, you are right. Hampshire is a black hole when it comes to accessible records online. The Knight site is all right, as far as it goes but there is so much missing. Can't fault them for all their work, however.
Julie, Alison (Ally Cat) says that Mary Anne O'Keeffe married a Kelly but I can't find any record. There is a very appropriate death for a Mary Anne O'Keeffe who died as an infant in 1846. Alison says it is not the right Mary Anne.
Thomas O'Keeffe remarried in 1853.

[Ammanda Schutz]

Maybe John McCrohon Jr was registered with the military as an overseas birth.

[HarrysMum]

I'll take a look at GR later...I'm on the phone at the mo..

[tenterfieldjulie]

I need to have a good sort of my McCrohon material and find out who says what and when. The problem is that I may never emerge again !!
Thanks Di for the French name, Kate for the Banham baptism and Libby for the Hunter River Forum, all avenues to be followed. I wonder if there is any truth that Mons. Bainhamee (not sure of spelling) was a diplomat and the name Ducroix was a smokescreen? The newspapers of the day might be another avenue to follow. Hoh boy .. One needs to be slightly mad to do this :eek: lol