Can someone please put me out of my misery.

[HarrysMum]

I know I'm falling asleep here between the LMA records and having the grandchildren for the week...lol....but this is just over the top.


Can someone have a look at LMA burials for David Rigge. There are only two. I can't read the image well enough to work out if they are the same person.


Then...

Can someone also look at the LMA marriages for David Rigge. There are also two. The image looks like David and Charlotte did the banns bit, but David and Elizabeth actually got married??????????


I'm trying to sort my missing David Benone Kirkby baptised 1759 who went under the name of Rigge (his mother's name) and went to London to be apprenticed as a jeweller.

Sorry............but I have to go to bed.....I will look back in the morning ....early.

Thanks.

[samesizedfeet]

Burials


Looks to the same to me. First hit is done chronologically and whoever is filling it in has done the columns himself. The age is unclear but they've transcribed it as 25.

Second one they've filled in the printed form (probably written up teh first page into teh proper book) and it's slightly random - and even though the age is clearly 25 ancestry have transcribed it as 23

[HarrysMum]

Thanks Zoe..........I was hoping he'd be older..............lol


Now about the marriage??????

[samesizedfeet]

Marriages/Banns

Definitely two different names: Charlotte on Banns and Elizabeth on marriage.

I'd go with her being called Elizabeth though as that's what she has signed as on the marriage

[samesizedfeet]

There's always the chance that whoever the informant was got it wrong. You've basically got two records but from the same source so one is just copying from the other. SO if the original was wrong the copy isn't going to correct any mistakes.

[HarrysMum]

Thanks again, Zoe.

I reckon he's used the wrong sister's name somewhere and he's got to be related. My Kirkby/Rigge family were always up to something....................then they married the Ariels......lol

[Merry]

*Reaches for revolver and bullets*

[samesizedfeet]

Is this your man in 1841?

Class: HO107; Piece 690; Book: 11; Folio: 15; Page: 24; Line: 21
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=MDXHO107_689_690-0509&fn=David&ln=Riggs&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7570870


because in 1851 the wife of that David (called Elizabeth) is down as a widow:

HO107; Piece: 1510; Folio: 105; Page: 19

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=MDXHO107_1509_1510-0403&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Rigge&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2671329


I'm wondering if the burials are a bit skewiff.

The first hit, written chronologically so likely to be the original version, is very hard to read the age. It could be 25 as suggested - but the 2 is quite different from all teh others as it's not as swirly on the base as the others.

if you scroll up to teh top of the page and look at entry number 3 for "Henry ??" who is 68 the '2' on David's entry is a lot more like the '8' on Henry's

Which would make the original entry age 85 .

Might be good to get a 2nd opinion though......

[samesizedfeet]

There's a Will proved in 1845 on the National Archives for the David Rigge from the 1841 census (same address)

Will of David Rigge, Gentleman of No 22 Brompton Row , Middlesex
Date 06 March 1845
Catalogue reference PROB 11/2014links to the Catalogue

[Merry]

I read the two burials as aged 84 and 85 and would agree that David Rigge (transcribed Riggs) aged 80 in 1841 (the ref Zoe posted) is the man who died.

[Merry]

Erm, the lady listed under David Rigge on the 1841 census isn't his widow though.

Zoe found her in 1851 showing as a widow, but those daughters, Honoria and Julia (only looked for the unusually named ones!) are the children of John Strickland RIGGE and his wife, Elizabeth X.

Would Elizabeth perhaps be the dau-in-law of David Rigge?

[samesizedfeet]

they like intermarrying don't they?

Google books throws up this gem:

The Gentleman's magazine, Volume 166

24 (Aug 1839) - At Brompton, John Rigge, esq. of Hunter Street, to Honoria, dau. of David Rigge Esq.

[samesizedfeet]

hmmmm - I think this is a case of one family using the same names over and over

[Merry]

Answering my own Q, maybe not as there is a John Strickland Rigge bap at St Mary le Bow in 1797 but his parents are John THomas Rigge and Rebecca!

And, guess what?!! John Strickland Rigge married.......Elizabeth Rigge in 1820 at St Mary le Bow.

:d:d

[Merry]

So, Elizabeth who was living with David in 1841 may have been his daughter and his daughter-in-law!

Cripes Zoe!! Another one!

[samesizedfeet]

There are two Honoria Rigge on 1841

One wife of John Rigge, which would be the marriage above - she's the daughter of David Rigge of New Bond Street

and another who is living with David and ELizabeth Rigge in Brompton Road

[Merry]

If you try Rigge marries Rigge in the LMA index you get:

(Charlotte)/Elizabeth m David 1790

Elizabeth m John Strickland 1820

Eleanor m Henry 1830

Honoria Hester m John 1839

[samesizedfeet]

This is becoming a tangle.

there's definitely two Honoria's - one born abt 1811 who married John Rigge and one born abt 1828 who is with David and Elizabeth Rigge in 1841.

What was the marriage status of teh Elizabeth Rigge who married David? I wonder if she was the widow of John Strickland Rigge and decided she liked the name


EDIT Ignore my theory - Merry just proved i'm wrong before I asked the question

[Merry]

There are two Honoria Rigge on 1841


and another who is living with David and ELizabeth Rigge in Brompton Road


That's the dau of John Strickland Rigge and Elizabeth (who was probably David's dau and d-i-l. :D (I think! :confused:)

[Merry]

Most of the marriage witnesses are called Rigge too! lol

[samesizedfeet]

okay - I think it's me causing confusion. The Elizabeth on 1841 is either a daughter or a 2nd marriage as she wasn't born until after the wedding of David to Elizabeth/Charlotte.

Most likely a daughter I would think.

Still don't know why they have the Honoria who belongs to John Strickland RIgge with them though - other than they were a particularly close family

[Merry]

okay - I think it's me causing confusion.

And me as well!


The Elizabeth aged 45 in 1841 I think is:

ELIZABETH RIGGE
Event(s):
Birth: 16 FEB 1793

Christening: 24 MAR 1793 Saint Mary Le Bow, London, London, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: DAVID RIGGE
Mother: ELIZABETH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record.


and also:

JOHN STRICKLAND RIGGE
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH RIGGE
Marriage: 07 OCT 1820 Saint Mary Le Bow, London, London, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.


So, forget what I said before about her being dau-in-law as well as dau, as I hope she didn't marry her brother! (I think I already said that, because John Strickland Rigge's father was John Thomas or something!!)

I'm so glad this isn't my tree!! lol

[Merry]

Zoe saw the will for David Rigge. Here are a couple more:

This is probably the father of John Strickland Rigge

Will of John Thomas Rigge, Perfumer of Cheapside , City of London 06 May 1823 PROB 11/1671

and this may be John Thomas Rigge's widow:

Will of Rebecca Rigge, Widow of Montague Place Kentish Town , Middlesex 28 April 1841 PROB 11/1944

[samesizedfeet]

A few the children with David Rigge in 1841 could be the children of John Strickland Rigge

1841:

David Riggs 80
Elizabeth Riggs 45
Joseph Riggs 40
Ann Riggs 25
Elizabeth Riggs 15
Ellen Riggs 15
Honoria Riggs 13
Mary Riggs 10
Julia Riggs 8


Baptisms for children of John Strickland Rigg and Elizabeth:

John c1805
Elizabeth Ann c1821
Ellen c1823
John Thomas c1825
Honoria c1827
emily Arabella c1829
Mary Jane c1831
Julia c1834

[Merry]

That's what I thought!!

I don't know if I'm going off on a tangent here, but there's this on TNA in 1870:

Rebecca Rigge is presumably John Strickland Rigge's mother:

Cause number: 1870 R173.
Short title: In the matter of the trusts of the will of Rebecca Rigge. The application of Isabella Salmon widow.
Documents: General summons.
Defendants: Heather and Company, John Strickland Rigge, Elizabeth Ann Rigge, Honoria Rigge, Emily Andell Rigge, Mary Jane Rigge, Julia Rigge, Benjamin Swainson, Margaret Mary Ann Swainson and John Thomas Swainson.
Amendments: Amended by order 1870. Ellen Douglas and John Thomas Rigge added as defendants. John Strickland Rigge struck out and replaced by Henry Ruck, Elizabeth Ann Rigge changed to Elizabeth Ann Ruck his wife, William Dobie Wilton Lyons added and Emily Andell Rigge changed to Emily Andell Lyons his wife, William John Walker added and Mary Jane Rigge changed to Mary Jane Walker his wife, Thomas Jarvis added and Margaret Mary Ann Swainson changed to Margaret Mary Ann Jarvis his wife, all defendants.





and on a different note - there is another John Strickland Rigg (no E) knocking about!

Marriages Mar 1844
RIGG John Strickland Birmingham 16 290 (m Sarah Rudge)

Deaths Mar 1857
Rigg John Strickland Birmingham 6d 107

Maybe not connected at all, just a big coincidence???

This JSR was born in Ireland and his mum, Ann, (with him in 1851) was born in Newcastle (under Lyme) Staffs.

[samesizedfeet]

death for John Strickland Rigge aged 40 in 1835 - address is 65 Cheapside

HOw many John Strickland RIgges do we have?

I've tried doing a family tree but I'm lost

[Merry]

I think we have two men at the top of our tree....

David Rigg

and John Thomas Rigg

David married Elizabeth Rigge and had a dau, Elizabeth Rigge (amongst others)

John Thomas married Rebecca X and had a son, John Strickland Rigge (amongest others)

Elizabeth and John Strickland married.

They all? had a child called Honoria! lol

[Merry]

My post #7 was just a tasteless joke at the time, but I am reaching again now!

[samesizedfeet]

Think I'm caught up now.

I was getting confused as I thought Elizabeth on 1841 living with David was still unmarried as she had the surname Rigge.

Now I see that she is David's daughter who, as family tradition dictated, married a Rigge, and THAT is why all John Strickland Rigges children are with David on 1841

I think.

So - who does Joseph Rigge in that family on 1841 belong to?

[samesizedfeet]

So, the 1835 death on LMA for John Strickland Rigge of Cheapside is the husband of Elizabeth (daur of David) and the likely reason why he's been lumbered with all those children in 1841.

Finally got my head round it.

[samesizedfeet]

1833 burial on LMA for Elizabeth Rigge age 60 of Brompton row - so that's probably teh wife of David

[Merry]

So - who does Joseph Rigge in that family on 1841 belong to?


I don't know!! :rolleyes:

But if you go to TNA site and put David Rigge Kirkby into the main search box, you will read something rather shocking about David Rigge's grandfather, William Rigge! What a way to think of your late daughter - only as your servant!!

I have to do the school run now!

[Merry]

There's a marriage for Joseph R (son of David) to Susanna Brighton on the LMA stuff. He would be in his 50's though.

[samesizedfeet]

John Thomas Rigge buried Dec 1822 - abode 65 Cheapside. aged 53

Rebecca Rigge buried 1841 - abode Kentish Town. aged 65

[samesizedfeet]

and we still need to work out who John Rigge c1805 that married Honoria (daur of David and Elizabeth) is.

[Langley Vale Sue]

I've got nothing to add for Libby's family, but I just wanted to say to Zoe & Merry - I've sooooooo missed your knowledge & imput and solving of family tree mysteries. It's lovely to 'see' you both again doing what you do best, helping others solve their family history puzzles :)

[samesizedfeet]

Libby

I've put together a gedcom of what we've got so far - let me know if you have a program that will read it and I'll email it to you

Still working on who that John Rigge husband is - although I have a nice collection of children for him and Honoria.

I've got a feeling that this is going to be one of those trees best solved by piecing together the info from the Wills. So, let me know when you need me for transcribing again :)

[samesizedfeet]

Honoria's John Rigge is a solictor. Address in Gentleman's magazine is given as Hunter Street.

I think that makes him part of the duo I've found on google books "John Rigge and Hohn Rigge jun" who are the registrars in the Court of Deeds for he County of Middlesex.

If so - one of them wrote this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YZI0AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22john+rigge%22+deeds&lr=&ei=SeC4Sq2pA43GNbn_rcwP#v=onepage&q=&f=false

probably his father as it was published in 1798

[samesizedfeet]

last bit from me before I go to the football

There are a lot of references to the name Rigge being involved in a couple of Freemasons lodges in the London area (on google books).

most of them are only snippet views so it's hard to see what they're saying but it's something you could look into as they may hold more family information. I was specifically looking for John Rigge but it mentions other names too.

[HarrysMum]

Oh thank you all..............

I've wanted to piece this tree togeteher for ages, but couldn't get a start.

David Benoni Kirbky Rigge was baptised in Hawkshead, Lancashire 1759.
He was the son of David Kirkby and Mary Rigge. David and Mary never married.
Mary died "of a broken heart" in 1760.

William Wordsworth wrote his first ballad about the death of Mary Rigge.

David Kirkby (the father) later married Agatha Sawrey (sorry, Merry, for mentioning the "A" word, but that was her name).

Mary Rigge's father brought up little David Benoni, but his father had to have him apprenticed "somewhere which his sordid birth would not be against him".....lol

After that I lost the little fellow.

Interestingly, Thomas Strickland was the gg grandfather of Agatha Sawrey, so they've kept the Lancs theme running for several geneartions in London......lol

I will now endeavour to get the wills. I may help finding them as well as transcribing, Zoe........

Thanks again.......you did good!!!!