Holder World War 1

[daleholder]

Hi - Im looking for more information on my great Grandfather Joseph Alexander Victor Holder

I know that he married Daisy Holder (formally Hall) and I know of one child - Leslie Joseph Holder (boy) born 22/10/1917.

He also fought in world war 1 (from england) and was a Private in the Rifle Brigade. His service number was S(or5)-14326 - I found this information engraved on a World War 1 Service Medal.

I am trying to find out who his parents were and whether there were any other offspring other than Leslie.

THanks

[Merry]

Here's his birth and marriage registrations:

Births Dec 1887
Holder Joseph Alexander V Chelsea 1a 387

Marriages Dec 1915
Holder Joseph A V Hall Willesden 3a 804

[Merry]

We don't post details of living people on GF - If Joseph had other children might they still be alive?

[Merry]

I've just had a look and it seems unlikely there were other children as all the other Holder/Hall births are in a completely different area, both sides of 1917.

[daleholder]

Thank You very much Merry for the effort to get me this information :)

[Merry]

That's OK. :)

I can't see him instantly on the 1911 or 1901 census, though there's a likely match in 1891, with quite bad writing for the rest of the family! Maybe your best bet would be to get his marriage and birth certificates to make sure all the information tie together. It may not seem worth it as he has a quite exclusive name, but you wouldn't want to accidentally do someone elses family tree! lol

I have to make breakfast now...........

[daleholder]

Thank you Merry.

I am definately a "newbie" at this, so I really appreciate the advice.

I have a copy of his sons (my grandfathers) birth certificate, and that is the only document i have that alludes to his existance...

Excuse my ignorance, but how does one go about sourcing birth certificates? . . they would definately be helpful, as they may contain info on parents etc.

:)

[Merry]

You can order the birth and marriage cert from the ref details I gave earlier via the General Register Office:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

I couldn't see the proper details for Joserph's wife under Hall, so in case her first name isn't recorded exactly as you might expect, you can jus order the marriage cert using Joseph's details.

Just ask on here if you get stuck as I have to do the school run now! lol

[daleholder]

Thanks again..

I have ordered the certificate - (estimated despatch date is 24 March).

enjoy the School Run :)

[Mary from Italy]

His medal card's on Ancestry, showing that he was invalided out due to wounds. It says para. xvi KR, which means:

(xvi) No longer physically fit for service

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6812

It also says List M/217; no idea what that means.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1262&iid=30850_A000760-02010&fn=Joseph&ln=Holder&st=d&ssrc=&pid=4161425

There ought to be a pension record for him, but I can't find one.

You can probably view Ancestry free at your library; alternatively you can take out a free 14-day trial (but remember to cancel before the 14 days are up if you don't want to pay).

[daleholder]

WOW, thank you Mary

[Merry]

(estimated despatch date is 24 March).

enjoy the School Run :)

It was great! :d:rolleyes:

Heavens! The 24th?? That's a long time.

[Mary from Italy]

Is anyone familiar with WW1 records?

I thought people who were invalided out usually got the silver war badge instead of medals, but there's no SWB code on the medal card, and he got two medals. Any idea why?

By the way, his correct regimental number is S14325.

[Mary from Italy]

You'll find a lot of information about researching WW1 servicemen here:

http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad.htm

If you have any questions not answered on that site, you'll find their forums very helpful.

[daleholder]

Is anyone familiar with WW1 records?

I thought people who were invalided out usually got the silver war badge instead of medals, but there's no SWB code on the medal card, and he got two medals. Any idea why?

By the way, his correct regimental number is S14325.

Thanks Mary...

I will look at the medals tonight when I get back home to get the details - their is a bronze one and a silver one, but they look like general service kind of medals.. I will let you know the details tomorrow.

Thanks for the corrected regimental number.

[annswabey]

The M/217 on his Medal Card refers to the reference for the Silver War Badge Roll, so he DID get the SWB.

If there's no pension record for him then it's worth checking the service records on Ancestry. If in neither, his records were no doubt destroyed, as so many of them were.

There is a very small sample of medical files at the National Archives, but have just checked the Catalogue and there's nothing for him.

[Mary from Italy]

That's a pity. I did check the service records, and didn't find him.

[Chrissie Smiff]

As Merry says of course, first of all you need the Joseph Alexander Victor Holder birth and marriage certificates.

When you have his birth certificate though, if it gives his father as Joseph Henry Holder, I think this may be them in 1891 on Ancestry -
Look for Joseph Holder born c188 in Chelsea, living in Willesden, with father Joseph.
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1042; Folio 18; Page 28; GSU roll: 6096152.

If this is them I think you may find that this is his fathers birth - Joseph Henry Holder - July-Sept 1860 - Marylebone - ref 1a 463

The wife of Joseph senior is listed in 1891 as Winnie Holder born c1862 in Wootton Oxfordshire. However, looking closely at the image I think it may actually say Annie. I can't find a likely marriage for Joseph Henry Holder other than POSSIBLY in Oct-Dec 1881 - Woodstock (Oxfordshire) ref 3a 1236 - to either Anne Bassett or Elizabeth Ann Eaglestone. I can't find a suitable birth for Anne Bassett but IF Joseph junior's birth cert should also give mother as Elizabeth Ann Eaglestone there is a birth for her that would fit. Perhaps he just called her Annie?

I have probably got this all wrong but I had to put it here for you to hold on to just in case it fits WHEN you have the birth cert for Joseph Alexander Victor Holder.

[Merry]

Oooh, the first part of that is where I was going this morning, but didn't post because I went out! lol Good to know you had the same thought process, Chrissie, and you went on to the next stage to, checking possibility for the births of those brides in the right place/timeframe. Nice job :)

[daleholder]

@ ann - I was searching all afternoon trying to figure out what the M/217 could have reffered to - but only got a lot of info on road networks and chemical compounds..... :)

@Chrissie - Thank you very much - I have ordered the Birth Certificate, but think, based on your and Merry's advice, I will also order the marriage certificate today. . . It may take a few weeks to get, but then we can test it against your research.


:) Thanks again everyone :)

[daleholder]

birth an marriage certificates en route. . . .