William Garlick/Whittaker FMFFF (40) [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

Olde Crone

07-01-11, 21:11

Another shambles.
Speculative information in green[/COLOR]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
William Whittaker Garlick
Date and place of birth
About 1800, Lancashire (maybe Hollinworth, Oldham?)
11 October 1799 Hollinwood
Names of parents
Not known
Thomas Whittaker Garlick and Alice Andrews
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Not known
11 November 1799 St Mary hollinwood Oldham Lancs
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
None found
20 September 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich to Elizabeth Davenport
Occupation(s) - if any
Plumber (1841) Housepainter on son's marriage cert.
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census
c 1822 Tinker Lane Hollinwood Oldham
1833 Great Ancoats St Manchester
Sudell St Manchester
Oldham Rd Manchester
1841 George Leigh St Ancoats Manchester
1843 Lancaster Gaol
Date, place and cause of death
before 10 August 1854,
Date and place of burial.
10 August 1854 St Mary Hollinwood
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Not known
Memorial inscription - if any
Not known

Notes: William Garlick/Whittaker had four known children, probably more, with Elizabeth (unknown). The four children were baptised with the surname GARLICK and use this surname until some time between 1841 and 51, when they all start using the surname Whittaker. (Because their father was bankrupt and in gaol?)

A Betty Garlick married a JAMES Whittaker in 1816 at St Margaret's Hollinwood. This is probably irrelevant now.

There was another William Whittaker of the same age in the area who was a house painter. He is not my William Whittaker as I have tediously proved, his son who has the same name as my 2 x GGF (Edward/Edmund) married someone else.

Any thoughts on this would be very welcome. Obviously I cannot get any further back until I know whether his surname was really Garlick or Whittaker.

OC

Merry

07-01-11, 22:28

OC, where is Elizabeth Garlick/Whittaker in 1851?

Olde Crone

07-01-11, 22:48

Merry

She's at 34 Blossom St St George Manchester, H0107/2225 ???? as Elisabeth Whitaker (one T) aged 51.

In 61 she is at 31 Heaton St, Ardwick, Manchester, aged 61 (two TTs) in 71 at 37 Meridian St Ardwick, aged 71.

OC

Merry

07-01-11, 22:51

Did Alice die? Do you have her death cert?

Olde Crone

07-01-11, 22:59

I assume Alice died but no, I don't have her death cert. The Garlick/Whittakers werent keen on registration!

OC

Merry

07-01-11, 23:05

Hmmm....see what you mean!

Merry

08-01-11, 09:21

Connected?

Death
Name: Sarah Garlick Whittaker
Year of Registration: 1864
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Oldham
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 355

Did son Thomas G/W (aged 7 in 1841) marry Jane Bowers in 1854? I wondered what he said about his father on his marriage cert? (or what any of them said for that matter)

More bits:

Death
Name: William Whittaker Garlick
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Chorlton
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 283

Marriage
Name: Edward Whitaker Garlick (to Ellen RIDDELL, Lancs BMD)
Year of Registration: 1843
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 650

Birth
Name: Mary Eleanor Whit*Ker Garlick
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 718

(Apologies for probably going over old ground!)

Oh and what's this about? (from Ancestry)

UK, Extracted Probate Records
Thomas Whittacre Garlick
April 1836
Hollinwood P. Oldham
Book: Marriage Licences Granted within the Diocese of Chester. (Marriage)
Collection: Cheshire: Chester - Wills and Administrations, 1834-1837

Merry

08-01-11, 09:29

??

Name: Thos Garlick Or Whitaker
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 08 Sep 1765
Baptism/Christening Place: ROYTON,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Garlick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice Whitaker
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01483-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 215608
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 09:47

Oooh, thankyou Merry, I had some of that info but not all of it. It's looking as if the Garlick/Whittaker confusion goes back many years.

I have Edward's MC to Ellen Riddell. It is cleverly laid out so that either Garlick or Whittaker could be the surname, which is why it took me 40 years to find it - the GRO have it as Garlick and I wasn't looking for that name! He states his father is William Garlick Whittaker, a housepainter.

(Ellen Riddell is relatively new info for me, for many years I had Edward Whittaker, father William Whittaker, a housepainter, married to Ellen Kenyon. Wrong! Parallel family).

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 10:27

Google Books

The bankrupt directory: being a complete register of all the bankrupts, with their residences, trades, and dates when they appeared in the London gazette, from December 1820 to April 1843

Page 156

Garlick, William Whittaker, Manchester, plumber, March 16th, 1838

Merry

08-01-11, 10:38

OC, you need to look at the London Gazette

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

Choose London and Advanced search. Put William Whittaker in the exact match box and Garlick in the next box. You should get four matches and three are your man. This computer (OH's) is being difficult, but I did manage to see one of the pages which says Wm was in Lancaster jail!! I can't view that page at the same time as typing here so it's frustrating. Two of the entries are in 1843. so I'm thiking he was alive then.

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 11:11

Oh Merry! What a fantastic find!

His great granddaughter Ethlina, the biggest snob who ever walked this earth, must be spinning in her grave!

Thankyou thankyou!

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 11:26

lololol!! Maybe that's why Mrs Garlick changed her surname? Oh, the shame!!

I did look to see if Wm was still languishing in jail in 1851 but I couldn't see any obvious matches. There are some prisioners with virtually no details though. Perhaps they separated when he went to prison and afterwards she wasn't sure if he was dead or alive? ]

Oh, I'be just remembered......One of those Gazette entries mentioned all Wm's addresses and I thought one of them was Elizabeth's 1851 address, but OH's computer battery died at the very moment I was about to check!!

Merry

08-01-11, 11:31

Oh, I'be just remembered......One of those Gazette entries mentioned all Wm's addresses and I thought one of them was Elizabeth's 1851 address, but OH's computer battery died at the very moment I was about to check!!

Nope, I was mistaken!

Merry

08-01-11, 11:39

There's another Gazette entry under William Whitaker (one T) Garlick.

It's for the dissolution of a business partnership with Thomas Dickinson dated 10th Dec 1836.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/19448/pages/2564/page.pdf

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 11:47

They lived at Great Leigh St in 1841, that's probably what you remembered.

OC

must get washing in

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 12:06

Well what a turn up, eh! Funny, I did once think I bet he's in prison, but that was really more of a spiteful dig at him than an actual serious thought.

Lancaster Gaol has a list of prisoners but not those in for debt unfortunately.

Oooh, I wonder if he died in there? Off for a look.

OC

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 12:18

A-HA! got his death!

1854 Sept William Whittaker Garlick, Chorlton 8c 283, so he was out of jail by then and living with ?wife? son? daughter?.

I shall have to send for this cert as it will be interesting to see who registered the death.

Thankyou so much for your help Merry, as usual you have made me refocus, as well as providing me with new info.

OC

EDIT - silly old fool! (Me, that is). You already gave me that death but I was trying to fit it to someone else!

Mary from Italy

08-01-11, 13:56

I don't suppose you're interested in John Garlick Holden, born c. 1812 and died in Kirkham in 1901? :)

Merry

08-01-11, 14:36

I don't suppose you're interested in John Garlick Holden, born c. 1812 and died in Kirkham in 1901? :)

pmsl!!!!

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 15:50

Oooh, actually Mary, I do have a special interest in Holdens of Kirkham and have been looking for a missing link for ten years.

It would be astonishing if the missing link was Garlick and not Holden as I had always presumed.

OC

Mary from Italy

08-01-11, 17:04

Found his burial on LancsOPC if you want to have a look.

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 18:22

Thankyou Mary, I've found that but can't take him backwards unfortunately.

I'll take him off this thread though, otherwise I'm going to get into a mess here.

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 18:55

OC, do you think this man, Thomas Whittaker Garlick.......

Name: Thos Garlick Or Whitaker
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 08 Sep 1765
Baptism/Christening Place: ROYTON,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Garlick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice Whitaker
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01483-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 215608
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

is the same person as this dead man.......

UK, Extracted Probate Records
Thomas Whittacre Garlick
April 1836
Hollinwood P. Oldham
Collection: Cheshire: Chester - Wills and Administrations, 1834-1837

(the will is also on the Lancs Wills Index)

and he is the father of your William via this baptism?:

Name: Wm. Garlick
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Nov 1799
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT MARGARET CHADDERTON,HOLLINWOOD,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 11 Oct 1799
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thos Garlick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03320-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 990079
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

If we could find Wm in 1851 with the right birthplace it would be simple! lol Maybe the 1836 will might sort out something?

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 19:30

Merry

Yes, that is a distinct possibility I think. Some of the children were bap at St Margaret's, so William Garlick had connections with that church.

The Royton connection is REALLY worrying me now. My missing link Holden was from Kirkham but his antecedents were from Royton.

I like Cheshire Wills site! I will order that one.

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 19:34

That's interesting about the baps. Was there a bap for this dau?

The Manchester Times and Gazette (Manchester, England), Saturday, January 12, 1833

Deaths

On the 4th instant, after a few days illness, Elizabeth, the only and beloved daughter of Mr William Garlick, painter, of Great Ancoats Street in this town, aged one year.

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 19:46

Oooh, clever Merry! no, don't have that daughter.

I have a terrible confession to make. St Margaret's records are not on line but someone went and had a look at them for me and sent me transcripts, which I carefully copied out...I don't know WHATI have done with the bit of paper, but I do have

Edmund (or Edward) Garlick/Whittaker 1822
William Garlick/Whittaker bp 14 Mar 1830 St Margaret Hollinwood
Thomas Garlick Whittaker c 1834
Alice Garlick Whittaker c 1839

I am sure there must have been other chldren (but my contact didn't find any more at St Margaret. I didn't realise then that they had moved to Manchester by 1833, as per your newspaper item above. I will have another look for baps with that in mind, although I know I did a very thorough search all over Lancs.

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 20:03

Maybe the others were under Whitaker?!!

Oh, I didn't actually really mean that, but:

No record of Edward/Edmund....then......(all submitted)

William Garlick Whittaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 14 MAR 1830 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth

Elizabeth Whittaker (the one who died and is in the paper)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 13 MAY 1832 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England

Death: 07 JAN 1833
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth

Thos. Henry Whittaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 14 DEC 1834 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth

is this Alice?

Jane Alice Elizabeth Whittaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 06 OCT 1839 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth

There are also these girls, but that newspaper suggested Wm's first dau was Elizabeth, so these two may be red herrings:

39. Helena Devenport Whittaker - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 MAY 1821 Hollinwood, Lancashire, England

40. Eleanor Devenport Whittaker - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 14 OCT 1827 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England

Oh and if Alice was actually Jane Alice, then:

Births Sep 1839
Whittaker Jane Alice Manchester 20 462

That birth is also on Lancs BMD and it's in Ancoats sub district.

:D

Merry

08-01-11, 20:27

Of course if Wm was just acknowledging the death of his only surviving dau rather than his only dau, and those two with the middle name Devenport are his and Devenport is Elizabeth's maiden name, then this would be nice:

ELIZABETH DEVENPORT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 SEP 1799 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN DEVENPORT
Mother: JANE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

Making Wm and Eliz's last known child named for both their mothers! (If Wm's parents were Thomas and Alice, that is!!)

I think my leap of faith is too big!!!!!!!!!!!

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 21:14

I think I played with Elizabeth Davenport before and dismissed her, cannot remember why now without a good rummage through my notes. Ah, maybe because one of the grandchildren marries a Davenport, although why that should rule her out.......yes, alfred Whittaker,1861 son of Edward/Edmund Whittaker Garlick, marries an Elizabeth Davenport in 1882. Ah yes, she died and Alfred shoved off to South Africa and remarried and then died out there. Tree on Ancestry etc.

Those subs are new to me but they do have definite dates, which I always think is reassuring, don't you.

Why would William and Eliz take their children back to Hollinwood to have them baptised, I wonder? I need to tread carefully because of the OTHER William Whittaker, who led me so fearfully astray for many years.

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 21:37

Well, if your researcher thought they were called Garlick and the person with the submitted entries thought they were Whittaker, then I think the best move might be for someone else to look at the PRs once and for all, to see EXACTLY what is said (and for the Devenport ones).

I can't imagine why they went back to Hollinwood, but the death notice in the paper ties in with the bap of Elizabeth. I wonder if she was buried there? (I guess so, as it's unlikely the submitter would have made the connection otherwise).

Erm are you going to ask the registrar about that birth cert for Jane ALice in1839? If the parents are Wm and Elizabeth you will have a maiden name to go on!

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 21:42

Just in case you thought it was all sewn up, who's this

Jane Garlick bp 25 Jun 1815, Collegiate, Manchester, d/o William Garlick, painter and Elizabeth, of Salford.

Has to be a red herring, surely, William and Elizabeth were only 16 in 1815!

OC

EDIT Unfortunately, Hollinwood regs aren't available through the IGI. I will have to see if I can bully my brother (again) or find my bit of paper....I suspect the submitted ones were submitted by a Whittaker descendant, probably the ones in SA, who would only know the family as whittaker and would think that Garlick was a funny middle name...or maybe they submitted as Whittaker for ease of continuity!

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 21:55

*ignores first bit of last post*

At great personal effort, I have got up from the sofa and gone into a coldroom to switch on the desktop computer which has the NBI disk in the coffee cup holder. I found these:

Elizabeth Whittaker aged 11 months bur 7th (month illegible) 1833

Jane Alice Elizabeth Whittaker aged 2 bur 16th July 1841

Fits with:

Deaths Sep 1841
GARLICK Jane Alice Elizabeth Manchester 20 345

Elizabeth Whittaker aged 78 bur 8th April 1878

which fits with:

Deaths Jun 1878
WHITTAKER Elizabeth 78 Chorlton 8c 388

and

William Whittaker aged 54 bur 10th Aug 1854

which fits with the Garlick death reg posted yesterday!

:D

Merry

08-01-11, 22:06

lol forgot to say all those burials are at Hollinwood!

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 22:16

Oh thankyou and well done, hope you had a thick cardi on!

They lost an awful lot of children, didn't they. There's a suspicious gap in the births, not many in the 1820s and those all die except Edward. Arsenic/lead poisoning, perhaps!

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 22:20

Hmmm..... I suppose all the Elizabeth's (ie Wm's wife) on the baps were the same woman?

I will have another check of the burials tomorrow, as I only searched for certain ones. Also forgot to check Garlick! lol

Merry

08-01-11, 22:37

The Hollinwood Whittaker baps are on the FS pilot site. I clicked the button that says 'about these records' and amongst other things it states:

Record Description
The index is an electronic database of information transcribed from original records.

I'm going to type out the baps here (everything that is Wm and Eliz Whittaker) in the right order and without duplicates, as I get confused otherwise:

27th May 1821 Helena Devenport
28th July 1822 Edward ....................(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)
14th Oct 1827 Eleanor Devenport
14th Mar 1830 William .....................(bap is listed under Garlick on FS pilot, father Wm Whittaker G mother Eliz. With Wm and Eliz 1841)
11th Dec 1831 Mary
18th May 1832 Elizabeth
14th Dec 1834 Thomas Henry ...........(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)
8th Feb 1835 James
22nd Jan 1837 John
6th Oct 1839 Jane Alice Elisabeth .....(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)

So, some of them are very close together! There are no Garlick baptisms (Wm and Eliz)

As I said, I'll look at the burials again tomorrow.

Olde Crone

08-01-11, 23:15

Ah, a few there I don't have.

I have Edward born 2 June 1823, baptised 28 July 1823, s/o William Whittaker and BETTY, a painter of Tinker Lane.

Don't forget, there is another William Whittaker around, with a wife Elizabeth/Betty, so some of those could be theirs. The "other" William Whittaker was around on the 1841 census, waiting for me to pick him up thinking he was mine....

Off to bed now, cannot see straight. Thankyou so much for all your help today.

OC

Merry

08-01-11, 23:30

Merry

08-01-11, 23:32

Goodnight OC.

Some of the baps were Betty and some Elizabeth, but I guess there are two couples and it may be that some of the children will never be matched with the right parents. Those two that were Devenport were one mum as Betty and one Eliz, so clearly not separate forenames!

Merry

09-01-11, 07:49

Ah, a few there I don't have.

I have Edward born 2 June 1823, baptised 28 July 1823, s/o William Whittaker and BETTY, a painter of Tinker Lane.

I've just checked that I copied the date from the FS pilot correctly. FS says 1822 and no dob. As the bap date (28th July) is the same I guess someone has mistrancribed the year.

Looking at post #37 I realised I'd not found the bap for Wm 1830. Had another look and it's under Garlick! Have added him to the list. (couldn't see any others under Garlick. )

I'll look at the burials this evening.

Olde Crone

09-01-11, 08:20

I found some Whittaker printouts I had done from the IGI ages ago - St Mary Hollinwood, but they were mostly too early for this family. I also found the bit of paper I wrote down my contact's extracts and it is clear there is additional info on the original register as I have an address and occupation for Edward's father. I need to get at the originals.

Also, Thomas's Will. Cheshire Wills database doesn't show it for some reason and the Wills online site I loved so much seems to have disappeared since the disbanding of the old Cheshire County Council, grrrrr.

Although Thomas is an alluring candidate, and I want to get the Will if only to eliminate him, I'm a bit worried that William and Elizabeth's first son was Edward and not Thomas.

I shall be out most of today (I think) so I will update my original post with all this scrummy information this evening, lol.

OC

Merry

09-01-11, 11:20

This is where I saw the will:

http://www.xmission.com/~nelsonb/lws.htm

and the results page for Garlick 1836:

http://www.xmission.com/~nelsonb/will_search.cgi?surname=garlick&name=&willy=1836&yrrange=0

tenterfieldjulie

09-01-11, 11:32

Isn't that an interesting spelling "Whittacre".

Merry

09-01-11, 16:54

Right, here are all the baps I've found with parents Wm and Elizabeth (Elizabeth and Betty seems to have been used completely interchangably, so I've not worried about which is used each time, but if you need me to re-check anything, please say) along with any burials. As you said, it is two families by the look of it...........I've made the ones I think are yours BOLD, though the Devenport ones can only be classed as probably bold! lol

27th May 1821 Helena Devenport ......Bur 18th Sept 1822 aged 1yr 5mths Parents Wm & Eliz, address Tinker Lane**(see the end of this post)
28th July 1822 Edward ....................(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)
14th Oct 1827 Eleanor Devenport........Bur 4th Aug 1829 aged 1yr 10mths Parents Wm & Eliz, address Tinker Lane**
14th Mar 1830 William .....................(bap is listed under Garlick on FS pilot, father Wm Whittaker G mother Eliz. With Wm and Eliz in 1841)
11th Dec 1831 Mary*
18th May 1832 Elizabeth...................Bur 7th (mth illeg) 1833 aged 11 mths. This one is your family because of newspaper notice.
14th Dec 1834 Thomas Henry ...........(with Wm and Eliz in 1841)
8th Feb 1835 James*
22nd Jan 1837 John*
6th Oct 1839 Jane Alice Elisabeth .....Bur 16th July 1841 aged 2 (with Wm and Eliz in 1841)

*The three apparently surviving children, Mary, James and John could well be these from the 1841 census:

The address looks like "Swineside (or Innside?), Hollinwood, Prestwich Cum Oldham, Oldham Below Town, Lancs" or any part of that you feel like choosing!

William Whittaker 40 Weaver Yes
Betty Whittaker 40 Yes
Mary Whittaker 10 Yes
James Whittaker 5 Yes
John Whittaker 4 Yes

I presume the fathers occs should be in the baptism register?

After 1841 this second family all vanish into outer space, probably at the same time changing their name to O'Nion or something.

**I note you mentioned that for Edward's bap William Whittaker/Garlick was recorded as a painter of Tinker Lane and I see that is the address for the two Devenport burials.........

Olde Crone

09-01-11, 16:56

*puts schoolmarm's cap on*

Julie, the name was originally "Quitacre" and came about in the 15th century from the wording on land documents -

John, quitacre to John Inger (Ingoing tenant)

Another derivation has it as White Acre.

OC

Olde Crone

09-01-11, 17:53

Oh, that's brilliant Merry, I was never sure about Tinker Lane, thought it could have been Timperley Lane where some of them lived later on, but no, Tinker Lane it is.

That's really strengthening the Devenport marriage too, of course. Edward and Thomas Henry both had daughters called Eleanor and Elizabeth and Jane Alice.

Thanks again Merry.I'm wondering whether to tell my elderly uncle about all this lot or not - he is very proud of his middle name Whittaker, lol and I doubt if he wants to change it to Garlick at this late stage of his game!

OC

Merry

09-01-11, 17:55

Maybe he could just add the garlic? Erm, I mean Garlick! :D

Merry

09-01-11, 18:03

That's really strengthening the Devenport marriage too

Don't forget there is a possible birth reg for Jane Alice (Elizabeth) Whittaker in 1839, though the last forename is missing so it may not be her.

Fingers crossed for the 1836 will too.

Olde Crone

09-01-11, 19:23

I am wording a fiendishly cunning email to the local Registrar which will I hope allow me to find out if her mmn was Davenport, without me having to buy the cert, lol!

Although Davenport is a common name in Lancs, I do wonder if the later Whittaker to Davenport marriage was to a cousin or some other relative. I will have to follow that up at a later date.

OC

Olde Crone

10-01-11, 22:36

Done a bit more digging tonight.

There is a SUBMITTED entry of a marriage between John Garlick and Alice Whittaker on 22 August 1765 Prestwich. Their son Thomas Garlick or Whittaker is baptised on 8 September, how very odd when his parents are married.......

...no they aren't! the actual date of their marriage was 22 SEPTEMBER 1765. The IGI submitter obviously brought the marriage forward a month for respectability's sake, lol!

They had shedloads of children all called Garlick. What spitefully long memories the clergy had

OC

Merry

10-01-11, 22:49

lol!!

Where did you find the correct marriage date?

Merry

10-01-11, 22:55

Ah, found it - Lancs OPC.

Maybe the submitter looked at the banns register? :rolleyes:

tenterfieldjulie

11-01-11, 01:09

[QUOTE=Olde Crone;107141]I am wording a fiendishly cunning email to the local Registrar which will I hope allow me to find out if her mmn was Davenport, without me having to buy the cert, lol!

:d:d:d:rolleyes: Have you been successful. Julie

Merry

11-01-11, 06:18

I guess you saw this, OC? (Lancs OPC)

Marriage: 20 Sep 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
William Whittaker - of Hollinwood
Elizth Davenport - of Hollinwood
Witness: John Ward; Edw. Redford
Married by Banns by: J. G. Kirkbank
Register: Marriages 1819 - 1821, Page 13, Entry 38
Source: LDS Film 2356185

There's also a Wm Whittaker to Alice Davenport in the 1830s which confused me no end, as I had got mixed up with the forenames!

Olde Crone

11-01-11, 09:26

Yes, I had found the marriage thanks.

I fogot to say that John Garlick and Alice Whittaker had an Edward, so that pleased me!

I can find no marriage for Thomas, only a vague submitted one "about 1808" to Alice Bickerstaffe, but I haven't found a marriage to back that up. However, the submitter would hardly make up a name, surely, so maybe there's something in that. Can find no children other than William, which cannot be right. will have to wait for Thomas' Will.

OC

Merry

11-01-11, 14:41

I couldn't even find the children of John Garlick and Alice Whittaker, except for Thomas b before they married!

For children of Thomas and Alice Garlick/Whitaker I think I also only found William Garlick in 1799. I think they were probably already married by then or the vicar wouldn't have allowed them to use Thomas's prefered name of Garlick.

Merry

11-01-11, 14:56

I can find no marriage for Thomas, only a vague submitted one "about 1808" to Alice Bickerstaffe

Trouble is, if he married as Garlick, then the marriage might be recognisable, but if he married as Whittaker then that will be tricky as there are children of a Thomas and Alice Whittaker being baptised both sides of the 1799 William Garlick baptism. I don't think it would be east to sort out!! (and one of those baps is too close in date to Wm Garlic's bap to be likely to be the same Thomas and Alice under their other surname.)

Olde Crone

11-01-11, 18:12

Children of John Garlick and Alice I found on the new LDS site.

(Which incidentally, is a big disappointment to me...the children's baps were divided between St Margaret Hollinwood and St Mary Oldham, so maybe more than one couple involved, but even so, definitely more than one SOURCE involved and I find it very difficult to work out what the source actually is - Baptisms for England and Wales is not a very helpful title for the source. Also, one of the entries - Joseph Garlick 3 Aug 1783 - appeared no less than five times. I thought the new site was supposed to have streamlined and cut out duplicate entries. If not, it will soon be as messy as the old IGI.)

I ASSUME (oh, hahaha) that William was born in wedlock, as he has taken his father's name of Whittaker Garlick, so an 1808 marrriage couldn't be right, or at least, Alice Bickerstaffe isn't his mother.

OC

Merry

11-01-11, 18:43

Tricky stuff.

Did you track down that 1836 will? Wouldn't it be awful if it proves not to be the right person!!

Merry

11-01-11, 19:09

I know this is a while before Wm's birth, but Thomas was certainly old enough to be married by this date.

Marriage: 12 Feb 1792 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whittaker - (X), of Chadderton in this Parish
Alice Roe - (X), of Chadderton in this Parish
Witness: Geo. Horrocks; Benjamin Lees
Married by Banns by: Hy. Housman
Source: LDS Film 2113205

Olde Crone

11-01-11, 19:19

Well possibly not the right person as there does appear to be a parallel family of Whittakers and Garlicks, but I'm clutching at the fact that Thomas appears to be known as Thomas Whittaker Garlick.

There is an Edward/Edmund Garlick who is a surgeon and of Chadderton, so there might be a posh line who left Wills, lol.

No, I still can't see how to order that Will, it doesn't appear on the Cheshire site. I think I will have to order the film from the LDS.

OC

Merry

11-01-11, 19:40

I think I will have to order the film from the LDS.

Good idea :)

Olde Crone

11-01-11, 20:09

That's the last resort Merry, as films from the LDS are now £7 whereas a copy Will from Cheshire is only £3.50, lol!

A kind person has sent me a transcription of the Alice Bickerstaff marriage, which has no date or venue. I have just realised also, that if that is MY Thomas marrying Alice Bickerstaff, he would only have been 15 - not impossible of course but a bit unlikely, and only one child in 19 years of marriage???

OC