Sarah Thomason (MMFFM)

[ElizabethHerts]

mother's mother's father's father's mother

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Sarah Thomason

Date and place of birth
c. 1816 (from death information)

Names of parents
Unknown

Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Unknown

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
To Edward White
28th June 1837 Headley Hampshire
Witnesses:
William White (groom's brother)
Richard Hall (guardian of Sarah)
http://www.johnowensmith.co.uk/marriages/marr-WYZ.htm

Children:
1. William Edward 15 January 1839 The Workhouse Headley
2. Frederic 12 August 1840 The Workhouse Headley
3. Joseph Thomason 10 December 1841 The Workhouse Headley

Occupation(s) - if any
1841 Matron of the Workhouse at Headley, Hampshire

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
1841 Census
Headley Workhouse Headley Hampshire
Edward White 40 Master No
Sarah White 25 Matron N
William Edward 2 Y
Frederic 9 months Y

It appears that Sarah and Edward White had to leave employment at the Workhouse, probably because of Sarah's health. When Sarah died the family lived in Bramshot and Edward White was a shoemaker.


Date, place and cause of death
Sarah White died
12th August 1843 Bramshot
Aged 27 years
Wife of Edward White Shoemaker
Cause of death: Consumption
Informant: The mark of X Elizabeth Adsett Present at the Death Bramshot

Date and place of burial.
18 August 1843 Bramshott
aged 27 years

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Unlikely

Memorial inscription - if any
Not known

[ElizabethHerts]

This is one of my saddest ancestors for me. She was just 27 when she died, leaving 3 small children. I'm even sadder that I know nothing about her before her marriage.

I have the will of a Richard Hall, whom I believe to be her guardian, but it doesn't mention her or her family.

[ElizabethHerts]

Although they married in Headley, Hampshire, the marriage record is on Ancestry under Surrey.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/4779/40815_1831101883_0903-00033/2166993?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dSurreyMarriages%2 6rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3da ngs-d%26gsfn%3dEdward%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dWhite%26u idh%3dxt1%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d8%26h%3d2166993%26rec off%3d9%2b10%26ml_rpos%3d9&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord


Haven't got time to look at this further as a lot going on here, but must return to this. Note the guardian - Richard Hall. This must be a clue.

Edward was a Baptist - were they from the Baptist community??

[Merry]

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
To Edward White
28th June 1837 Headley Hampshire
Witnesses:
William White (groom's brother)
Richard Hall (guardian of Sarah)

On the marriage entry it says "With Consent of the Guardian of S Thomason R White" and R White is a witness you don't mention. Why doesn't it say R Hall in that first sentence? (rhetorical Q lol)

Yo said you have the will of a potential Richard Hall. Which Richard Hall is that please?

[ElizabethHerts]

R White I believe to be Rebecca White, Edward's spinster sister, who looked after one of the sons, Joseph, after Sarah died.

I don't believe it means she was the guardian.

Richard Hall was of Bramshott:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=gmj1688&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=CanturburyPrerogativeCourt&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=Richard&gsfn_x=NP_NN_NIC&gsln=Hall&gsln_x=NP_NS&MSAV=1&uidh=9p3&pcat=36&fh=100&h=479825&recoff=7%208&fsk=BEENq34IgAAT9wAGEsU-61-&bsk=&pgoff=&ml_rpos=101

Sarah White died at Bramshott in 1843 and was buried there.
Merry, some time ago you found the death of Sarah for me after I had ordered a couple of incorrect certificates! I was very grateful.

[ElizabethHerts]

On the marriage entry it says "With Consent of the Guardian of S Thomason R White" and R White is a witness you don't mention. Why doesn't it say R Hall in that first sentence? (rhetorical Q lol)


Ooh, eer, I see what you mean! I should have read it again and not gone from memory.

Rebecca White was the only one of the White children (parents George and Elizabeth) to have been born as a Baptist.

Name: Rebecca White
Birth Date: 2 Feb 1801
Birth Place: Guildford, St Mary, Surrey, England
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Father: George White
Mother: Elizabeth Miles
Denomination: Presbyterian, Independent or Baptist
Piece Title: Piece 122: Certificate nos: H 4046-4300 (1834 June 26-1837 June 15)

[ElizabethHerts]

Perhaps it is supposed to mean the Guardian of Sarah Thomason (i.e. Richard Hall) AND R. White (Edward's sister).

William White was Edward's brother.

William was born on 13th September 1798 in Guildford and Rebecca on 2nd February 1801. William was baptised at St Mary, Guildford but Rebecca was entered as a Baptised, so the family converted between 1798 and 1801.

[Merry]

Thanks.

I was expecting the Richard Hall who died in Petersfield district in 1847 to be the one whose will was proved in 1851, but he was only 37 years of age which seems unlikely. Is R Hall aged 64 in Bramshot in 1841 the one who wrote the will (I guess I should have looked at the date it was signed!)?

[ElizabethHerts]

The will is proved in 1851, so perhaps it isn't the correct Richard Hall. Possibly a son?
The will was written in 1848 and a Codicil was added in 1851.

I will have to re-visit this as it is a while since I looked at this file.

[ElizabethHerts]

Edward White and Sarah Thomason married by Licence. However, I can't find any record of it.

[Merry]

The codicil for the will of Richard Hall was signed 26 Dec 1848 so the man who died the year before clearly can't be the testator! As you said, perhaps a son?

So, where's the death for testator Richard? The will was proved 3 July 1851.

[ElizabethHerts]

I can't find a death either, Merry. I have searched in FMP and on the GRO.

[Merry]

On FMP there's a notice in the Hampshire Telegraph 15 March 1851 asking for people with claims on the estate of the late Richard Hall of Liphook Hants to apply to an Auctioneer in Petersfield.

[Merry]

I wondered if there might be a connection between Richard Hall's wife and Sarah Thomason's mother (like matching surnames?!)

If course deciding which Richard Hall marriage(s) belong to the Richard Hall who should have died 1849/51 isn't straightforward........

[ElizabethHerts]

Richard Hall's will states he wants to be buried at Bramshott, but I couldn't find the burial here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~buriton/BramshotBurs.htm

Sarah White's burial in 1843 is there.

[ElizabethHerts]

I wondered if there might be a connection between Richard Hall's wife and Sarah Thomason's mother (like matching surnames?!)

If course deciding which Richard Hall marriage(s) belong to the Richard Hall who should have died 1849/51 isn't straightforward........

Yes, I wondered about a family connection too.

[ElizabethHerts]

First name(s) RICHARD
Last name HALL
Marriage year 1798
Marriage day 13
Marriage month Jul
Place BRAMSHOTT
Groom's first name Richard
Groom's last name Hall
Bride's first name Judea
Bride's last name Beall
Groom's notes
Bride's notes
Parish Bramshott
County Hampshire
Country England
Record set Hampshire Marriages

[kiterunner]

Going by the probate testimony, Richard Hall was living in Trotton, Sussex, when he died, so his death could be the one in Apr-Jun 1850 Midhurst district, age 73.

[ElizabethHerts]

First name(s) RICHARD
Last name HALL
Marriage year 1824
Marriage day 12
Marriage month May
Place BRAMSHOTT
Groom's first name Richard
Groom's last name Hall
Bride's first name Maria
Bride's last name Chandler
Groom's notes
Bride's notes
Parish Bramshott
County Hampshire
Country England
Record set Hampshire Marriages

[ElizabethHerts]

Going by the probate testimony, Richard Hall was living in Trotton, Sussex, when he died, so his death could be the one in Apr-Jun 1850 Midhurst district, age 73.

So he would have been born c. 1777. This would tie in with the 1798 marriage.

[Merry]

And that would tie in with R Hall on the 1841 census b 1777.

[ElizabethHerts]

His will states he was a Wheelwright. I expect this is compatible with being a a Carpenter too.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1841%2f0396%2f0313&parentid=gbc%2f1841%2f0013590804

[ElizabethHerts]

This is the baptism for Georgiana Hall who was on the 1841 Census:

First name(s) GEORGIANA
Last name HALL
Birth year 1826
Baptism year 1826
Baptism day 19
Baptism month Nov
Son or daughter Daughter
First parent's first name(s) William
Second parent first name(s) Lucy
Parish BRAMSHOTT
County Hampshire
Country England
Record set Hampshire baptisms

[Merry]

Going by the probate testimony, Richard Hall was living in Trotton, Sussex, when he died, so his death could be the one in Apr-Jun 1850 Midhurst district, age 73.


Oooh, if he married Jud* Beall, these entries may fit...

Hall Judith b 1777 d 1815 bur 1 Nov 1815 Hampshire Burials Bramshott, Hampshire

and:

bap: Judith Beal bap 21 Sep 1777 Trotton, Sussex father Thomas

[ElizabethHerts]

This looks like the burial for Richard Hall's wife:

First name(s) JUDITH
Last name HALL
Age 38
Birth year 1777
Burial year 1815
Burial day 01
Burial month Nov
Parish Bramshott
County Hampshire
Country England

[ElizabethHerts]

Snap, Merry!

[Merry]

He might have remarried in 1824 to Maria Chandler. Unless that's just another Richard.

[Merry]

Hall Maria b 1786 d 1832 bur 31 Aug 1832 Hampshire Burials Bramshott, Hampshire

Of course she was probably a widow in 1824 :rolleyes:

Lots of surnames to try and connect to Thomason!

[ElizabethHerts]

Yes, Richard married again as mentioned in his will is his daughter Edith Ellen Hall:


Name: Edith Ellen Hall
Residence Place:
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 07 May 1826
Christening Date (Original): 07 MAY 1826
Christening Place: BRAMSHOT, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND
Father's Name: Richard Hall
Mother's Name: Maria
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13658-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 1041172
Reference ID:

[Merry]

I noticed there are some children bap at Bramshott, parents Richard and Maria Chandler bap between 1807 and 1823. I say Richard and Maria, but actually, the first three say Richard for the father and the other three have no father recorded. There's a marriage in Portsea for Richard Chandler and Maria Stevens in 1806. I don't see any burial for Richard.

[Merry]

Every time there's a new surname I try to match it with a Thomason marriage entry to no avail!

[ElizabethHerts]

Same for me, Merry.

There seem to be very few entries for Thomason in the south of England, and, of course, the name is ripe for mistranscription.

[ElizabethHerts]

If only Edward White had married Sarah Thomason later in the year!

[ElizabethHerts]

From Hampshire Calm Catalogue:

Alt Ref No 24M82/PO18
Title Application by H Thomason to act as keeper of Fordingbridge workhouse
Date 1788

Probably too early, but at least there was a Thomason in Hampshire.
Also, Edward White was Master of the Workhouse for Headley. He gave up the post before Sarah died as she was probably incapable of performing her duties.

[ElizabethHerts]

Edith Ellen Hall married Thomas Brine Hellyer in Q4 1848 at Portsea Island.

1861 Census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/MDXRG9_305_309-1072?pid=5999430&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dgmj1709%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3DEdith%26gsfn_x%3DN P_NN_NIC%26gsln%3DHellyer%26gsln_x%3DNP_NS%26msbdy %3D1826%26msbpn__ftp%3DBramshott,%2520Hampshire,%2 520England%26msbpn%3D1665347%26msbpn_PInfo%3D8-%257C0%257C0%257C3257%257C3251%257C0%257C0%257C0%2 57C5266%257C1665347%257C0%257C0%257C%26cp%3D0%26MS AV%3D1%26uidh%3D9p3%26pcat%3D35%26h%3D5999430%26db id%3D8767%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gmj1709&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[ElizabethHerts]

The Hellyers in 1851 (mistranscribed):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/MDXHO107_1555_1556-0324?pid=1906727&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dgmj1710%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3DEdith%26gsfn_x%3DN P_NN_NIC%26gsln%3DHellyer%26gsln_x%3DNP_NS%26msbdy %3D1826%26msbpn__ftp%3DBramshott,%2520Hampshire,%2 520England%26msbpn%3D1665347%26msbpn_PInfo%3D8-%257C0%257C0%257C3257%257C3251%257C0%257C0%257C0%2 57C5266%257C1665347%257C0%257C0%257C%26cp%3D0%26MS AV%3D1%26uidh%3D9p3%26pcat%3D35%26h%3D1906727%26re coff%3D5%25206%252018%252019%252020%26dbid%3D8860% 26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gmj1710&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[ElizabethHerts]

In his will Richard Hall mentions his son Henry Hall who was in the 4th Light Dragoons.

Here he is in 1861:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/BRKRG9_761_764-0611?pid=8380481&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dgmj1717%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3DHenry%26 gsfn_x%3DNP_NN_NIC%26gsln%3DHall%26gsln_x%3DNP_NS% 26msbdy%3D1813%26msbpn__ftp%3DSurrey,%2520England% 26msbpn%3D5286%26msbpn_PInfo%3D7-%257C0%257C0%257C3257%257C3251%257C0%257C0%257C0%2 57C5286%257C0%257C0%257C0%257C%26cp%3D0%26catbucke t%3Drstp%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3D9p3%26successSource%3 DSearch%26_phtarg%3Dgmj1716%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY %26h%3D8380481%26dbid%3D8767%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos %3D8&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gmj1717&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

He was baptised at Gatton, Surrey. I have found other baptisms for a Richard and Judith Hall around the right time in Surrey, so it looks as though they settled in Bramshott later.

[ElizabethHerts]

Henry Hall's papers are here but they are on Fold 3:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=RoyalChelseaDischarges&h=658855&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gmj1717&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=8767

[ElizabethHerts]

Henry Hall died in 1864.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo23%2f52%2f00134&parentid=gbm%2fwo23%2f52%2f00134%2f1192334

He didn't marry.

[ElizabethHerts]

Children found for Richard and Judith Hall:


Charlotte born 1801 baptised at Merstham
William born 1802 baptised at Merstham
Mary born 1805 baptised at Merstham
Ann born 1807 baptised at Merstham
Henry baptised 1813 at Gatton, Surrey
Jane baptised 1815 at Bramshott, Hampshire

[Merry]

The first couple of those baps seem to say underneath, 'carpenter of Marybone'. So is that anywhere other than Marylebone?

[ElizabethHerts]

Mary Hall (born 1805) married James Bartholomew in 1830 at Bramshott and lived there with her family.

[Merry]

I did notice yesterday (from memory now :o) that Richard Hall's second wife had a son named Valentine Chandler b maybe 1808/10 or so and on the 1841 census there is a child named Henry White aged either 3 or 4 in his household. I don't know who this Henry White is, except that if he was registered then he isn't another child of Edward and Sarah, born before William Edward (1839). Though I just imagine this is a red herring I did think I should mention it just in case!! lol

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Merry. I'll investigate. I am trying to follow every lead but I'm juggling lots of things today.