Ellen Thompson, Kersmains, Roxburghshire

[tenterfieldjulie]

Name: Ellen Thompson
Date and place of birth: Between 1795 to 1805, probably Roxburghshire Scotland
Names of parents: Unknown
Date and place of baptism: Unknown, Church of Scotland
Marriage: John Jeffrey/Jaffrey
Occupation: Housewife
Addresses: Kersmains Farm, Kelso, Roxburghshire, Scotland Date, place and cause of death: Before 1855
Date and place of burial. Scotland
Details of will: Unknown
Memorial inscription: Unknown
Sources of Information: 1. Elizabeth Jeffrey, the daughter, supplied the following information when she migrated to Australia on the ship “Nabob.” It departed from Liverpool, arrived Sydney 6/2/1855, she is 26 yrs old, a kitchen or dairy maid, can read and write, Ch of Scotland, coming from Kersmains, Roxburghshire, Scotland, both her parents are dead. 2. Elizabeth’s marriage cert. lists her parents as above. 3. Probably a parting gift, was a book by Rev. H. Bonar of Kelso given to her with H? Winchester’s Best Wishes 1854. 3. Neither I, or a lady at Scotland’s Peoples Centre in Edinburgh could find Elizabeth’s birth. 4. I fluked on information about John Jaffrey and Kersmains but I will post it on Research.

[tenterfieldjulie]

In the 1841 Cenus - we find at East Nisbet which is less than 4 miles from Kersmains Farmhouse - John Jaffrey 80 pauper born Roxburghshire; Helen (Ellen) Jaffrey 30 - ag. labourer born England; and Elizabeth 12 - ag labourer born Roxburghshire. This proves to me that Elizabeth is either a daughter or granddaughter of John Jaffrey not Jeffrey. :)
In July I obtained at the Heritage Hub at Hawik an amazing source of information for Kersmains farm from 1816 to 1819 when John Jaffrey was sold up by the Duke of Roxburgh. He disappeared leaving his wife to be served the papers. Is Ellen/Helen a daughter-in-law or young wife of the 80 year old? Was the 80 year old the tenant of the Duke or his son?:confused:
So Ellen, also called Helen, was born in England. Age in the 1841 Census 30 -so she was born between ............... and ................? Dying between 1841 and 1854. Most of the married Scottish women kept their maiden name, as Elizabeth did in Australia - where she married a German. Was Ellen/Helen buried under Thompson or Jaffrey being English? :eek:

[kiterunner]

If Ellen / Helen is 30 on the 1841 census it means she was between 30 and 34, so she was born between 1806 and 1811. But she could have knocked a few years off her age, of course.

[kiterunner]

Scotland's People has an inventory listed for John Jaffrey, 17 Jan 1851, FARMER IN KERSMAINS, THEREAFTER RESIDING AT SAINT ANNS YARD ABBEY IN EDINBURGH (sorry for caps, I copied and pasted from the site). You have to pay to view it (5 GBP, not sure what the Australian equivalent is) but hopefully it will give you details of next of kin etc.

[kiterunner]

The only likely death I can see for the above, using the free OPR deaths & burials search on Scotland's People, is John Jeffrey 3rd July 1848 Edinburgh.

[kiterunner]

A little snippet on Google Books from "The Scots Magazine, 1805":
BIRTHS
April 9. At Kersmains, Mrs Jaffrey, wife of Mr John Jaffrey, of twins.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Kite you are wonderful. Just as well you aren't closer or I would be dancing you around the room lol. That is really wonderful. I'm soooooooooo happy yippeeeeeeee

[kiterunner]

Let us know what you find out, won't you, Julie?

[tenterfieldjulie]

Hi Kite, I bought the ScotsPeople Inventory and found answers, but more questions lol
John Jaffrey died on the 23 Oct 1822, living at St Anne's Yard Abbey Edinburgh (near the Botanic Gardens). His son James who was the executor of his estate, returned from Buenosayres (South America) where he had resided for 30 years in 1856 and must have decided to tidy up his father's affairs. Briefly his father owned one share in the Kelso Bridge, but had no other assets after being sold up due to debts. After 30 years this share was worth 50 pounds and so this was what the inventory was about. Has this tied John Jaffrey deceased 1822 to Elizabeth, only if he is her grandfather. Could the twins that were born in 1805 have been John (Elizabeth's father) and James (executor of will)? If so what happened to John Elizabeth's father? What I really need are BMDs.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, it would help if we could find out ages for the John who died in 1822 and for James, wouldn't it? The only death I can see in Oct 1822 is John Jeffery 29th Oct 1822 at Leith South but I don't know whether it will be him or not. Maybe if you view the burial entry it might give enough info to determine if it is, and perhaps give his age at death.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Do I need to purchase credits with Scotlands People to view it?

[kiterunner]

Yes, you would need to, unfortunately, which would be annoying if it turns out not to be your man.

[kiterunner]

Oh, wait, does that mean you haven't viewed the actual image of that 1841 census to check if John Jaffrey's age is correctly transcribed?

[kiterunner]

Oh, I found another one on Google books: The Scots Magazine 1802:
BIRTHS
Feb 12 Mrs Jaffrey of Kersmains, near Kelso, a son.

[tenterfieldjulie]

No I haven't view the actual image of the 1841 Census. I have sent you a pm. Julie

[kiterunner]

Ah, and looking at the pilot site (FamilySearch Record Search), it shows James Jaffrey born 12 Feb 1802 Roxburgh, father John Jaffrey. It's on Scotland's People in the OPR births / baptisms, parish of Roxburgh, if you want to look at it to see what info is given (again, you would need to use credits to view it.)

[kiterunner]

FreeCEN has the 1841 entry and it shows the same ages as you have, so they're probably correct.

[tenterfieldjulie]

What would I get do you think, that you didn't get on the FSRS? As James appears to be the eldest, you would think the marriage would be easy? On FSRS I looked at 1804/5 for the twins - found William Brown Jaffrey 15/12/1805 Ednam father John and mother Ann Steel; Margaret 12/4/1805 Roxburgh father John mother Margaret Watson, but neither are twins.

[kiterunner]

You can't be sure what you will get on an OPR entry till you look at it, but some of the ones I've downloaded include father's occupation and names of godparents or witnesses with their occupations and residences.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I'm wondering if anyone can find Ellen/Helen and/or Elizabeth Jaffrey/Jeffrey on the 1851 Census please? Ellen/Helen may have died, although she would have only been in her 40s - on Elizabeth's shipping 1854 both her parents are dead. Elizabeth appears to have a farewell gift from H? Winchester from Kelso in 1854 so she was there then - Winchester may have been her minister or employer. Occupation - on 1841 Cenus at East Nisbet, Roxburghshsire, Scotland, Elizabeth is an ag lab as is her mother Ellen, on shipping she is a kitchen or dairy maid and can read and write.

[kiterunner]

Well, there is a marriage 31 Mar 1842 at Crailing between John Welsh and Helen Jaffray, but then on the 1851 census the only John Welsh in Crailing (who was also the only one there in 1841) is married to a Janet Clark with a daughter born 2 Nov 1849. There is a female Welsh who died at Crailing on the 7th Jan 1849 listed in the OPR deaths and burials on Scotland's People, but she doesn't seem to have a first name listed. (Or maybe I went wrong somewhere when going through the alphabet on the free search) If you buy some credits to view the John Welsh / Helen Jaffray marriage and / or the Welsh burial maybe you will get some more info, even if it's just to rule her out.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Kite I will do that.

[kiterunner]

Sorry, I put Walsh a few times where it should have been Welsh! It was very late when I typed that! Corrected now.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I found on the FS Beta site a marriage in 1849 Kelso between Elizabeth Jaffrey and John Aimers, I'm wondering if I should buy that too? She went by the name of Jaffrey on her shipping, but then when she died and she was married to Christoph Alt - her headstone had Jaffrey. I noticed lots of headstones in Borders the women kept their maiden names.

[kiterunner]

On the 1851 census John Aimers' wife Elizabeth is age 27 and born Hawick, Roxburghshire, according to ancestry. There is an Elizabeth Aimers death in Kelso in 1860 on Scotland's People but apparently there is no age at death or mother's maiden name recorded. So again, yes, you would need to look at the marriage and / or death for more information.

[kiterunner]

Oh no, wait - there is a child listed on the pilot site who was born in 1866 to John Aimers and Elizabeth Jeffrey! So it's definitely not your Elizabeth!

[tenterfieldjulie]

Many thanks Kite - she has left for Aus 1855 so that eliminates her.