View Full Version : Isaac Sage (Week 5 - FFMFF)
Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Isaac Sage
Date and place of birth
Unknown
Names of parents
Unknown
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Unknown
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
Wife's name is Elizabeth. Possible marriage: to Elizabeth Collyer 12th May 1799 at St Michael's Bath. Witnesses Charles Russell and Thomas Watts. However, unless I find more children for my Isaac, I doubt this marriage is the right one.
Occupation(s) - if any
1815 collier
1840 (at son's marriage) postman (is that to do with mail or mining - maybe two words? post man?)
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
Unknown
Date, place and cause of death
Unknown
Date and place of burial.
Unknown
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Unknown
Memorial inscription - if any
Unknown
The baps I have for his children are:
5th Mch 1815 at Clutton, George son of Isaac and Elizabeth Sage
15th Oct 1817 at Clutton, William .........ditto
ElizabethHerts
26-11-10, 11:29
Merry, do you know if he was still alive in 1840 when his son married?
I think it's unlikely, Elizabeth. It's a while since I last looked, but there are very few death registrations or appearances on the 1841 census and I think I checked out anything I found and either eliminated them or had no evidence whatsoever to make a link. :(
Annoyingly, there are burials for Isaac and Elizabeth Sage in Clutton (NBI) but both about three or four years before those two children were baptised. At the time I first found those I thought I could 100% ignore them, but since them I found a bap for a child in London (nothing to do with this family) who definitely had two dead parents, but you wouldn't know it from the baptism entry! So, now I keep wondering about the Clutton people. :(
Ah, I'd forgotten about this other snippet......
The witnesses to the 1840 marriage of my 2xg-grandparents (George Sage, Isaac's son and Eliza Easton) were Isabella Sage and Edward Weeks. When I got George and Eliza's cert about ten years ago I didn't have access to much to help me, but wondered who Isabella Sage was and thought she might have been George's mother (but I now know she was Elizabeth). George and Eliza's firstborn was also called Isabella Sage.
I've just realised Isabella Sage (the witness) and Edward Weeks appear here:
Marriages Jun 1849
Allies Ann Dalton Clifton 11 385
Allies Anne Dalton Clifton 11 385
Bevan Elizabeth Catherine Clifton 11 385
Carpenter Caroline Clifton 11 385
Fripp Alfred Downing Clifton 11 385
Hodges Isaac Clifton 11 385
Perry Charles Clifton 11 385
Sage Isabella Clifton 11 385 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Weeks Edward Clifton 11 385 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
and more importantly, here:
Groom's Name: Edward Weeks
Bride's Name: Isabella Sage
Marriage Date: 25 Apr 1849
Marriage Place: Clifton, Bristol, England
Groom's Father's Name: Thomas Weeks
Bride's Father's Name: Isaac Sage
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00932-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1749587
Reference Number: Pg. 203, cn 405
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973
So, it would seem Isabella is likely to be George's sister! Maybe an age and baptism for her would help sort out.........well, something!
1851 census:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=GLSHO107_1952_1952-0857&fn=Isabella&ln=Weeks&st=d&ssrc=&pid=17211440
SO, Isabella seems to be younger than her brothers, suggesting the marriage I found for Isaac and Elizabeth is not the right one as it's probably too early (glad about that as I wasn't comfortable with it) and I can surely forget all about Isaac and Elizabeth dying before their children were baptised!! lol
I'm stuck then (coming forward) as I thought this Edward Weeks (1861) married to Roberta P:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=MDXRG9_276_280-0890&fn=Edward&ln=Weeks&st=d&ssrc=&pid=5803809
and this one (1871) married to Phillis:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_532_535-0617&fn=Edward&ln=Weeks&st=d&ssrc=&pid=12815910
was perhaps previously married to my Isabella, but it turns out this Edward had been married ages:
Marriages Dec 1842
BULL James Stepney 2 442
KIRK Mary Stepney 2 442
Maxwell Roberta Phillis Stepney 2 442 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Miller Charles Stepney 2 442
Russell Mary Ann Stepney 2 442
Turner Thomas Stepney 2 442
Weeks Edward Stepney 2 442 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
West Amelia Stepney 2 442
and both couples appear separately in 1851.
I hoped this Isabella Sage would lead me to more family via the 1841 census but I can't see her (or a likely candidate)
Drat. I've found Isabella in 1861 and she is widow and is aged 46, so now she is older than her brothers.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=GLSRG9_1724_1729-0998&fn=Isabella&ln=Weeks&st=d&ssrc=&pid=19384129
Can anyone find these?
Groom's Name: William Roberis
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Joanna Griffith
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 1840
Marriage Place: St. Michaels, Bristol, Gloucester, England
Groom's Father's Name: Thomas Roberts
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Isaac Sage
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M17256-2
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1595867
Reference Number: 2:1MHF9DP
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973
Possibly the same person?
Groom's Name: Isaiah Griffiths
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Joanna Sage
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 07 Sep 1820
Marriage Place: St. James Parish, Bristol, Gloucester, England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01055-0
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1596541
Reference Number: it2 vP p65
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973
Though this Joanna would appear to be much older than Isaac Sage's children, George and William, I wondered if these is some sort of connection as George Sage (Isaac's son and my gg-gf) named one of his daughters Joanna - she was my g-grandmother.
Hmmm, that 1820 marriage is probably not the one (though just possible), as Joanna is only 45 in 1851. I know it's the right one as there's a Griffiths step-son in the house. She was b in High Littleton which is only 1.4miles from Clutton where my Isaac's other children were born.
So, to clarify, I may have found female siblings for George and William Sage:
Isabella
b 1820 Clutton (1851) or 1815 Temple Cloud (1861)
m Edward Weeks 1849
d 1864 Clifton
Joanna
b 1806 High Littleton (1851) 1806 Temple Cloud (1861)
m 1) Mr Griffiths 2) m William Roberts 1840
(1861 listed as Robertson)
d 1870 Clifton
The problem with Joanna is that in 1851 her husband has his 83 year old M-i-L living with them and her name isn't Elizabeth Sage! She is Jane Lumber (that's not the right spelling) from Shepton Mallet. I did wonder if she could possibly be the mother of his first wife............*clutches straws*
Oh, but I don't know he has a first wife, do I!
Hmmm, I just found this (admittedly submitted) bap entry which isn't really too far out in date and is the right place:
Joanna Sage Pedigree
Female
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 07 DEC 1802 High Littleton, Somerset, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: Isaac Sage Family
Mother: Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Record submitted by a member of the LDS Church.
Oh look!
http://www.highlittletonhistory.org.uk/transcriptions0905/HLBaptisms1599to1948&Indx.pdf
1st June 1800 Nehemiah son of Isaac and Elizabeth Sage
17th Oct 1802 (dif date to submitted) Joanna ....ditto
I can't find a bap or marriage for Isaac or any more children or any burials to fit this family at High Littleton.
Remember Merry, that just as Son-in-law can mean step son, Mother-in-law could be Step Mother.
I have looked but can't see an Isaiah Griffiths marriage to a XX Lumber (although you are not sure the Isaiah Griffiths marriage is the right one are you?)
Do you know when Isaac died? Did he leave a will? - Edit, just reread, and you don't. hmm.
Thanks Tom.
I wish I could work out what that name 'Lumber' actually should read, as she doesn't seem to have died, a least not with that spelling.
Having now found that the only person called Joanna who was bap in High Littleton within years and years of 1805-ish was Joanna Sage in 1802 and knowing this Mrs Roberts was called Joanna Sage originally and says she was born there, I'm thinking whoever Jane is, she isn't Joanna's mother. I might have to leave her at that.
Who thinks I can confidently add Isabella and Joanna to my tree?
Here are another two submitted baptisms for children of Isaac and Elizabeth. They may be earlier than I have been able to check the PRs (will have to check old notes)
3. AARON SAGE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 OCT 1809 Clutton, Somerset, England
4. ARABELLA SAGE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 JUL 1807 Clutton, Somerset, England
None for Isabella though.
I noticed that Nehemiah Sage, who says he was b 1800 in Cameley rather than High Littleton (the next parish), had two daughters named Arabella and Isabella.
They all seem to link together with being more unusual names.
Do you have the link for the census that the Lumber lady is on?
Here it is, Tom:
HO107; Piece: 1952; Folio: 375; Page: 19
I found a transcription of the High Littleton registers on-line - have you seen them ?
http://www.highlittletonhistory.org.uk/registers.html
1800 Jun 1 Nehemiah s Isaac SAGE & Elizabeth
1802 Oct 17 Joannah [B/T Johanna] d Isaac SAGE & Elizabeth
There are also baptisms for children of Jacob, Jonah, Jesse and Nehemiah SAGE.
So the 1799 marriage is possible, just a long way from home. Couldn't see a baptism for Isaac though.
Looking at the "strays " burial section, a lot of High Littleton people were buried at Cameley (eg Jonah Sage aged 78 in 1847)
Di
Thanks Di - Yes, that's the site I was refering to in post #16.
There do seem to be several Old Testament names appearing later in my tree on the same line - Isaac, Jacob and Nehemiah, plus repeats of Isabella, Arabella and Jo(h)anna(h), suggesting these's a web of connected families. It's a pity more of the local parish records are not online anywhere (as far as I can see!)
Thanks Di - Yes, that's the site I was refering to in post #16.
There do seem to be several Old Testament names appearing later in my tree on the same line - Isaac, Jacob and Nehemiah, plus repeats of Isabella, Arabella and Jo(h)anna(h), suggesting these's a web of connected families. It's a pity more of the local parish records are not online anywhere (as far as I can see!)
Somerset seems to have a lot more private transcibers putting up different parishes on the internet, than a lot of other counties, just a pity no-one's got around to Clutton yet.
Di
Isaac's burial:
1 May 1836 aged 63 at Cameley, Somerset.
After a lot of prodding of the newly revamped FreeREG, I have progressed with this line. This is the extra info:
Parents: George Sage and Eleanor nee Pride
Birth: About 1772, probably at Cameley, Somerset
Baptism: 1 Nov 1772 at St James, Cameley
Died: Apr 1836
Buried: 1 May 1836 at St James, Cameley
No will. I don't know if there are any memorials at Cameley for the Sage family.
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