My photo on the restoration thread has raised a few questions

[Trish@Somerset]

Would be greatful if you could pop over and have a look at it for me please and give me your views - please be warned it could be upsetting so if you're of a 'tender nature' don't go looking

http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=686

[kiterunner]

Um ugh, sorry, I had to quickly exit from it!

[Trish@Somerset]

Sorry Kite, I did put a warning up though - so everyone else please take that warning seriously

[Merry]

Don't know where you want our views, but, having blown up the photo as much as I can before it goes splodgy, I can't see a thing odd about them whatsoever!

Quite happy to be proved wrong though.

[Trish@Somerset]

Thanks Merry, the more opinions the better (wherever they're put)

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

Yes, I think it may be the old lady who is deceased rather than the child. I have seen dead people before and actually rigor mortis does wear off; so the lady's curved hand could have been posed in that way.

The old lady's eyes are shut and she is not looking at the camera or the child.

The child could look stiff because she wasn't fully comfortable with the situation.

Cheers, FHA

[Trish@Somerset]

Thank you FHA, I don't think I'd be comfortable either!

[Merry]

I don't think the old lady's eyes are closed. I think she is looking at the floor about ten feet in front of her.

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

There's something not quite right about the body language. If all was normal you'd expect the lady to be looking at the child or camera. It's odd that her eyes are closed (or looking downwards). ;)

Photos were usually taken to celebrate an occasion (engagement, marriage, etc) what would this be to celebrate otherwise I wonder?

Cheers, FHA

[Merry]

Photos were usually taken to celebrate an occasion (engagement, marriage, etc) what would this be to celebrate otherwise I wonder?

Cheers, FHA


Oh lol!! Sorry, but I am crying with (black humour) laughter here!!! Were the celebrating getting rid of the old lady? .....Sorry I will go and make some coffee now.....biscuit anyone? (shortbread)

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

Oh dear! Yes, you have just made me smile too! I think that's what happens with death. We either run away from the subject or find a reason to laugh - it's because no one is entirely comfortable with the subject. ;)

It reminds us of our own mortality - better have a cuppa myself I think. :)

Cheers, FHA

[Merry]

These biscuits are probably bad for my arteries - would you like one?!!

Was this photo taken in Canada or here?

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

It might be worth sending the photo in to assorted Family History magazines. They often have photographic experts who might be able to say who is dead (if anyone). ;)

Food for thought though and an interesting photograph.

I LOVE shortbread biscuits but I don't want to clog my arteries! ;)

Cheers, FHA

[Trish@Somerset]

Not sure where it was taken yet Merry, still waiting for a reply

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

I wonder if this chap would be able to help?

I'm sure there must be other websites out there who might be able to give a definitive answer. I'd like to know for sure myself now.

http://www.cartes.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm

http://www.rogerco.freeserve.co.uk/

Cheers, FHA

[Merry]

I'd like to know for sure myself now.



Me too!

[Trish@Somerset]

Thanks FHA, think I'd better get the owners permission first though before I put it elsewhere - there is definitely something weird about it now that I'm looking at it closely!

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

Oh yes. Definitely get permission and if you do get permission and an answer, do let us know.

Thanks for sharing the puzzle.

Cheers, FHA

[Merry]

Do we know who these people are on the census? Trish, you said the older lady was born in Bristol, but which one is she?

[Trish@Somerset]

Hang on Merry, I'll have to look that up, it's OH's side so I'll have to go into his tree

[Merry]

*loops string round Trish's waist*

*ties it to door handle*

[Joan of Archives]

Ooo I am glad someone else thinks it "odd" ! There is something not quite right, call it instinct :rolleyes:

Yes it does seem morbid to us but I actually find it a fascinating subject if a little sad (and a tad creepy lol).

I would like to hear other's opinions too.

We'll keep Merry happy with tea & biscuits then lol :d

[Merry]

I've finished the shortbread - I'm starving!

I don't find pictures of the dead creepy at all - only sad if they are young, or whatever, in the same way I would feel sad reading the death cert of a child etc.

I would be very interested to know if either of these people are dead, but to me they still look very much alive!

[Merry]

Where has Trish gone? *frets*

[Trish@Somerset]

Thanks for that string Merry, I'd got quite lost! Can't find what I'm looking for though, I know he has two Florence's in that family, one was born a Morrell and the other married eith into that family or another family quite close (does that make sense?). Have had to text him at work to see if he remembers the surname because I'm blowed if I can find my way around his tree - just waiting for an answer

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

Some of those Memento Mori photos are produced very well (and tasteful for the time). The child just looks like it is sleeping.

However, some Mememto Mori photos aren't good at all and frankly, look bizarre. They're not taken in a way that I personally would wish to remember a child; but it was their choice I suppose.

Cheers, FHA

[Trish@Somerset]

No reply yet, his boss must be in the office! Bloomin' bosses are a nuisance:d I've found 2 Florences - not sure if they are the right ones but it's a start

Florence No/1 was born 1883 Bristol (so she might be a bit young) to John and Emily Ann Morrell

Florence No/2 was Florence Sarah green b1865 Bristol and married Charles Morrell

This is the only info I can find on his tree so he obviously hasn't followed either of them up yet

[Joan of Archives]

No reply yet, his boss must be in the office! Bloomin' bosses are a nuisance:d I've found 2 Florences - not sure if they are the right ones but it's a start

Florence No/1 was born 1883 Bristol (so she might be a bit young) to John and Emily Ann Morrell

Florence No/2 was Florence Sarah green b1865 Bristol and married Charles Morrell

This is the only info I can find on his tree so he obviously hasn't followed either of them up yet

Is Florence the candidate for the young girl then ?

[Trish@Somerset]

No, the photo is titled Florence Morrell and unknown daughter.
These are the only two I've found so far

[LindyTumblethump]

I have also blown it up and think it is the old lady who is dead and not the child, child is probably stiff with fright more than anything xxhugxx

[Trish@Somerset]

Lindy, I would be too! Think the old lady is getting more votes - all I have to do is work out who she is, still waiting for text from OH

[Merry]

Florence number 2 was the one I've been waiting for you to mention.

I couldn't help noticing she has a 'disability' recorded on the 1891 census. It says she was 'nearsighted from childhood'. Charles was dead by the 1901 census. She had a bevy of daughters, but depending on how old she is in that photo, would the child be a dau or a granddaughter?

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

I'd have thought a grand-daughter; but sometimes it's difficult to tell as women stay younger looking nowadays - whereas they didn't back then.

Is the child about 7 or 8 do you think?

Cheers, FHA

[Joan of Archives]

I have also blown it up and think it is the old lady who is dead and not the child, child is probably stiff with fright more than anything xxhugxx


Lol Lindy! Yes she probably was bless her! :d

[Merry]

I suppose whoever this Florence is in the photo, I may as well put what I'm finding........

When she was 36, Florence Morrell nee Green's children were:

Lilian 13
Caroline 11
Rose 10
Louisa 7
Ethel 6
Gertrude 3

[Trish@Somerset]

Thanks, I haven't deserted you but have got the hairdresser here doing daughter's hair, so can't be rude

[Merry]

And in 1911 when she was 46 with her were

Lilian 23
Rosa 20
Louisa 17
Gertrude 13

Ethel 16 is in a different household (possibly a servant - I've not checked yet)

Caroline married in Q1 1911 to Alfred G Saunders.

[FamilyHistoryAddict]

Hi Trish,

Just had a chuckle thinking of you trying to explain to the hairdresser that you are talking about whether people are dead or not in photos on a family history forum! :d ;)

Cheers, FHA

[Merry]

Ethel is a boarder in a household, so probably not a servant.

[Merry]

Oh, that's odd - I noticed on the 1911 census that Florence gives a middle intial 'I' rather than 'S', so I looked for the marriage to Charles Morrell and found this:

Marriages Sep 1885
Bushell Florence Isabella Barton R. 6a 300 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
LLOYD Lavinia Adelaide Barton Regis 6a 300
Morrell Charles Barton Regis 6a 300 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Morris William Barton Regis 6a 300


I can't find a marriage of a Green to a Morrell :(

So, maybe the family I've posted about are not the right people????

[Trish@Somerset]

Merry, if she was anything like the rest of the family she would change her name weekly!!:mad::mad:

[Merry]

Which one of them is your OH's rellie? Charles Morrell or Florence Sarah Green?

[Trish@Somerset]

It was Charles

[Merry]

Oh, well I don't know where he got Florences name from, but I think she was Florence Isabella Bushell not Florence Sarah Green!

How old do you think the lady in the photo is? I don't think she is so very old - maybe mid 50s. The hair style does her no favours.

Funny - it wouldn't normally bother me to say that, but thinking she could be dead in the photo makes me feel bad at criticising her hairdo! Maybe she shoud have employed your hairdresser?!! lol

[Trish@Somerset]

Merry, my hairdresser would love that! Actually she was quite fascinated by the photo:d
I think OH got the info on this marriage from another contact who is doing the same family, obviously never checked anything as he's not gone down that road yet

[Mandy in Wiltshire]

This is so interesting, in a sad and slightly creepy kind of way! I had no idea these kind of photographs were taken so I've learnt something new today.

If I can put my two penn'orth into the pot, when I first looked at the photo I thought there was something a bit strange about the old lady so I'd go along with Lindy's opinion - the old lady is the deceased one and the child's just petrified:eek:

[Trish@Somerset]

Thanks Mandy, as I said - all opinions welcome:):)

Now had a chance to see where we got the name Florence Green for the marriage to Charles and it has come from the same place where we got the photo from, it is their direct line (excuse me for being slightly confuddled with OH's tree and notes). Like Merry, I could find no sign of a Green marrying a Morrell but I have found the Bushell.

[Merry]

the old lady is the deceased one and the child's just petrified:eek:



In which case she probably isn't Florence Isabella Morrell, unless she is vastly older than I think she is in the photo! Or if she emigrated to Canada before dying.

[Uncle John]

"In another place" I suggested that the dead look might be due to the long exposure required and the photographer's practice of clamping people's heads so they didn't move.

[Trish@Somerset]

Thanks John, all thought being considered:):)

[Kit]

This isn't evidence but I don't get the strange feeling looking at your picture that I had when I looked at the photos on the links you gave me.

[Rosie Knees]

I think the girl is very much alive, not sure about the woman.

I first heard of these after death photos when I watched the film The Others. Spooky but very good!

[Trish@Somerset]

When I first received this photo I never thought much about it - then one little comment later and ........ :d:d Still very confused though, just waiting for OH to contact the people that sent it to get their permission to find out a bit more:)