View Full Version : stumped again - sorry!
Okay - I have a problem finding any records whatsoever for the following man, post 1919 when he was married.
Thomas Morgan Jenkins
born 27th March 1896 in the district of Newport, Monmouthshire.
Up until 1911, he lived in various public houses/hotels with his parents.
He married Daisy May Mary Barrett on 7th June 1919, when his occupation was Gardener, and they were living in the Llantrisant area of Glamorgan.
I have Daisy's death - 1980 in Glamorgan (as yet have not sent for cert purely because she was a good age, and it would therefore not be especially interesting - may have to though to see if she was a widow).
I have looked through all possible records on Ancestry and can find no death (nor on Freebmd), nor does he appear to have left a will. Military-wise, there is one reference to a Thomas M Jenkins in the Welsh guards, under the medals section, but it gives no info whatsoever apart from his Regiment number,(2406) and that draws a blank in all other searches which is strange.
I am now going to head off in other directions, but could do with some help if possible.
kiterunner
14-11-10, 22:20
The wills on ancestry only go up to 1941 so if he died after that you wouldn't find his will on there.
There's a Thomas M Jenkins death registered Jan - Mar 1962 Narberth district, age 65. The age fits, but not the place - but of course he could have been away from home when he died. But it's a very common name so who knows.
kiterunner
14-11-10, 22:21
Military-wise, there is one reference to a Thomas M Jenkins in the Welsh guards, under the medals section, but it gives no info whatsoever apart from his Regiment number,(2406) and that draws a blank in all other searches which is strange.
That isn't strange at all, Sally, because a lot of First World War records were destroyed during WW2 so in many cases all that's left is the medal index card, unfortunately.
kiterunner
14-11-10, 22:32
If you do get Daisy's death certificate, then as well as seeing if she was a widow, you will have the address where she was living and you might be able to find a T M Jenkins at that address in the British Phone Books on ancestry and see when he stops being listed.
Thank you Merry and Kite, will have to order that death cert for Daisy I think.
Thank you Merry and Kite
Did I say something? lol
No you didn't Merry...........twas purely Kate, but sheer force of habit made me slip your name in!!!
I am in trouble now though, because the GRO have sent me an email informing me of a full refund (wow, never had a full one before) because Daisy May Mary Jenkins does not exist as a death on the reference that I gave.
It's strange, because Ancestry have her death in South Glamorgan, 1980 and give a reference of volume 28 page 1850.........I must admit that the page number seemed odd. However Freebmd have no record of her death at all it seems.
So - I now appear to have a married couple that never died, unless Ancestry have posted a wrong page number, but then again where did they get that death for Daisy when Freebmd don't have anything?
I have double checked now, and the original image on Ancestry is as clear as anything. All references are correct. Am puzzled now as to why the GRO say that it doesn't exist.
Durham Lady
18-11-10, 18:02
Sally, I've just looked at find my past and they have the same reference for Daisy May M Jenkins and it's a clear to read typed one. I'd ask the GRO how come it's on that site and so clear if it was me.
Email the image as an attachment and growl at them.
What has probably happened, unfortunately, is that the index is wrong. Can you search Ancestry with the page reference, to see if there are any other deaths on that page?
ElizabethHerts
18-11-10, 18:05
Sally, I have Find My Past
1st quarter 1980
Jenkins Daisy May M
29 Dec 1895 (DOB)
S Glamorgan 28 1850
When the FRC was still staffed and open, they had to deal face to face with queries like that. It sounds like a simple typo. Possibly it would be easier to order a cert locally, or just omit the reference?
Thank you so much Elizabeth, Phoenix and Durham Lady.........so I am not just an inept noodle then.
Phoenix, when you say order it by omitting the reference - do you just give name and year? Didn't know it was possible to do that but am willing to give it a go.
I'm sure it must be possible - though I must I haven't ordered recently, but I would email them first to see if you can do it for the cheap price as it is their error, not yours.
I am currently filling in their form for enquiries etc. about orders - perhaps that will bring about a result.
kiterunner
18-11-10, 21:57
unless Ancestry have posted a wrong page number, but then again where did they get that death for Daisy when Freebmd don't have anything?
That's just because FreeBMD isn't complete yet. They haven't done much after the 1940's at all yet.
kiterunner
18-11-10, 22:15
I am in trouble now though, because the GRO have sent me an email informing me of a full refund (wow, never had a full one before) because Daisy May Mary Jenkins does not exist as a death on the reference that I gave.
I can think of one possibility - did you put the full name or did you put Daisy May M Jenkins as is shown on the index? I know it's unlikely but it could be that the M stands for something else, not Mary! I mean on the certificate - maybe the person who registered the death got her name wrong.
The volume and page number look to be right for South Glamorgan district for that quarter.
I put the full name Kite, but surely they would not just dismiss it as being wrong if they only had M and I had put Mary??
I will wait to see how they reply to my enquiry about this
They have M in the index, but if that turned out to be for Mildred or Margaret (on the cert) then they might decide it didn't match with what you asked for. I think a lot depends on who you get doing your lookup!
On the email from GRO the say that
"There is no trace of Daisy Jenkins at the reference quoted".
This suggests that it has nothing to do with the middle initials or names, and maybe has more to do with an original error when the death was first recorded.
Oh grrrrrrr.
Crafty Sue
21-11-10, 07:43
I had the same problem a while ago when trying to order a marriage cert. I was told that the marriage certificate didn't exist under the reference I'd quoted. I double checked and it was there, exactly as I put on the order. It turned out that part of the reference (place, vol & page number) related to a birth :confused: but not sure how it got indexed in the marriages.
By the way - the marriage did take place in that year, but in the USA!!
Sue
Had a reply from the GRO - they have double checked everything and can find no trace of Daisy.
They finished off by saying "sorry we cannot help you further, and please do not reply to this email" !!!!!
End of story then!
kiterunner
24-11-10, 18:48
Weird. I suppose you could try ordering it from the Glamorgan register office.
Weird. I suppose you could try ordering it from the Glamorgan register office.
Absolutely!
Will try that......at least they will probably be more helpful if nothing else
Am awaiting a reply from the Records Office in Glamorgan, and in the meantime have received a death cert for Thomas Morgan Jenkins.........it's the wrong one natch:mad:
My fault really, I could only find the one Thomas Morgan Jenkins in Mynddislwyn and thought that it MUST be right, or rather I hoped it would be. Silly me....even in such a tiny place there was more than one of that name.
This is so annoying because I have both Daisy and Thomas who are doing their best to foil all my efforts. I will not be beaten on this.
Uncle John
25-11-10, 19:29
Am awaiting a reply from the Records Office in Glamorgan
Register Office, I hope. Sorry to be picky!
Sorry John, but the email address is "Records Office". I don't actually care what they call themselves because they are a very helpful collection of Welsh ladies!! They just love to get their teeth into family history enquiries, and are so apologetic when they cannot help
Finally I am getting somewhere, after going all around the houses, and with wonderful help from the Wales Records Offices and Registrars.
Daisy died 20th January 1980 and I have ordered her cert from Cardiff.
Husband Thomas Morgan Jenkins died in 1962 (you were right Kite) in Narberth, Pembrokeshire, but he was interred in Cardiff and Daisy organised the funeral. It seems that he was cremated in Narberth.
kiterunner
13-12-10, 19:10
Oh, it's good to hear you've got some info at last.
tenterfieldjulie
14-12-10, 01:43
Well done Sally. Did you find out why GRO couldn't find the entry? Julie
Thank you - it took some sorting out but we got there!
The Glamorgan Record Office said that they felt that there must have been a mistranscription of the page number on the GRO index - The Cardiff Registrars Office own records of course are totally different, so the references do not match at all.
Cardiff were wonderful, because they not only found Daisy for me, but also husband Thomas, - they went to some trouble to find him, and also to verify that he was the correct person by checking who arranged the funeral etc. etc.
All this without my asking too! I cannot praise them highly enough
Uncle John
16-12-10, 20:09
I've been updating my FTM (2005 to 2010 and putting things in different boxes). I rediscovered a marriage where the parties have different typed page numbers in the GRO index. Fortunately not one I need the certificate for.
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