Anyone fancy looking for a needle in a haystack?

[Michael]

It's John Jones :rolleyes:

1881 - living at Ystradowen, Quarter Bach, Carmarthenshire, aged 35, occupation Smith in a Colliery, birthplace Swansea, Glamorgan, with wife Mary and children Morgan, David, Margaret and Thomas. RG11/5380, schedule 36.

1891 - living at Ystradowen Cottage, Quarter Bach, Carmarthenshire, aged 45, occupation Smith, birthplace Landore, Swansea, with Mary, the previous four kids plus two new ones, Elias and Elizabeth Anne.

I've searched earlier censuses and naturally there's no shortage of John Joneses of the right age, but I can't find any matching the birthplace and/or occupation. Can anyone help please?

[kiterunner]

I don't suppose you have a birth certificate for one of the children to get Mary's maiden name? I know that wouldn't help directly with the censuses, but then you could go the normal route of getting the marriage certificate (well, except Mary's surname is probably Davies or something and there will be millions of possible marriages!) and getting the name of John's father that way.
Anyway, off to hunt...

[Phoenix]

And John presumably dies before 1901, as there is a widow Mary in the right place, with Morgan and David.

My bet is that he wasn't a colliery smith in 1871. And he came from a small village, possibly not Landore, unless that is tiny.

[Michael]

Thanks. No certificates I'm afraid - Elias is a rather rarer name but even that one gives several possibilities for the birth registration, while the rest are more needles in haystacks!

[Phoenix]

Hm you do realise this is the only John LIVING in Landore of the rightish age in 1851:

HO107 piece 2465 folio 210 page 8

[Michael]

Thanks Phoenix, I'd missed that one - Llangyfelach is only a couple of miles from Landore so I'd guess that's probably the right one.

[kiterunner]

I would think Elias's birth reg is the one in Pontardawe Jan-Mar 1883 as he is supposed to be born in Llanguicke and that was in Pontardawe district.

[kiterunner]

Thanks Phoenix, I'd missed that one - Llangyfelach is only a couple of miles from Landore so I'd guess that's probably the right one.

I don't think you should guess with a name like John Jones! But you could follow that family forwards and see if you can rule him out - or if he becomes an apprentice smith and has a brother called Elias!

[Michael]

Vol 11a p639 you mean? Thanks, I'll check that one out.

[Michael]

I don't think you should guess with a name like John Jones! But you could follow that family forwards and see if you can rule him out - or if he becomes an apprentice smith and has a brother called Elias!

Fair point - the last time I guessed on this line, despite reasonable evidence in support of the guess it turned out to be completely wrong and I spent about five years researching the wrong family!

I've found the same family in 1871 (can't find them in 1861) - RG10 piece 5445 folio 37 page 8. John's occupation is given as copper something - can't read the second word, but it doesn't sound like it's much to do with a colliery.

[kiterunner]

Copper shearer, whatever that was.

Now to go back and look at those people whose birthplace was given as London, Glamorgan...

[kiterunner]

No, no luck there.

[Phoenix]

Landore seems to be vanishingly small. Wikipaedia suggests it only existed for tin & copper working and parish registers are very late. It looks as if it was a hamlet in Llangefelach

[Phoenix]

This is the family in 1861: RG09 piece 4097 folio 25 page 47

As Kite says, with so common a name, you have got to get certs, but anyone in Landore in the 1850s would have been working with tin or copper. If the wages looked better in a colliery, you'd say you could do the work.

[Michael]

Think I've found Elizabeth's birth reg as well - December 1884, Pontardawe, vol 11a p684 - so I'll try one or both of those for Mary's MN.

[kiterunner]

There is a John Jones age 43 born Landore on the 1891 census who is a Sanitary Inspector, married to Sarah. He could be that one from the 1851; I wonder if we can find him on the 1881 and see if that helps.
1891 ref: RG12/4475 Folio 33 Page 61

[Uncle John]

Copper shearer, whatever that was.

Cut sheets of copper to size using shears, is my guess.

[Michael]

Not removed copper from things in order to make it into clothing?

[kiterunner]

I found that other John Jones in 1881 but it doesn't help. He is a Commercial Traveller on that one and his birthplace is just Swansea.

[Michael]

My John also gave his birthplace just as Swansea in 1881, maybe everyone decided to be less precise that year.

[Uncle John]

My John also gave his birthplace just as Swansea in 1881, maybe everyone decided to be less precise that year.

At least he didn't just say Wales.