Emma Edge help checking please

[Tom Tom]

Emma is my three times great grandmother who is the subject of this weeks challenge. However, rather than clog that up I thought it would be better to just check through things on here if that is OK with everyone.

Really just wanted some opinions on whether my logic is sound.

Thanks for looking.



Just trying to get things clear in my own head.

Things I know for definite:

William Henry Chilton married Sarah Owen 17th May 1891 in Altofts, Yorkshire.
Sarah's father is given as Thomas Owen a Miner.

Witnesses were John Owen and Margaret Owen.



Sarah died before the 1901 census but at the time of the 1891 census (just before their marriage) she is a servant in a house in Wakefield.

My Nana knew that Sarah had three Uncles, John, Thomas and Albert who all lived in Altofts as they were still around when she was born.

This is Sarah's three brothers with their Mother at the time of the 1891 census, living in Altofts: Her mother, Emma's birth date is c1838.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=Albert&gsln=Owen&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=1880&rs_81004011__date=1&f27=&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1891&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=1891UKI&fh=10&h=5123187&recoff=1+2

Emma is shown as a widow.

At the time of the 1881 census, Sarah is living with her Grandparents, John and Sarah Owen.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=Sarah&gsln=owen&sx=&f1=&f2=&f3=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=1868&rs_81004011__date=1&f29=&_82004011=&_82004013=&_82004014=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1881&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=16&h=18230993&recoff=1+2

Emma is living in Altofts (born c1838) with her three sons. She is described as a widow.


I have been unable to find the family in 1871.

Sarah's birth certificate, gives her date of birth as 14th May 1868 daughter of Thomas Owen, a stone mason and Emma formerly Edge (who registered the birth with an X).

This is the marriage details, which link to the correct grandparent details from earlier:

1. 2nd Jan 1865 Thomas Owen and Emma Owen both of full age. Thomas a miner. Thomas' father is John Owen a charter master and Emma's is William Edge. Witnesses are William Edge (X) and Emma Buck (X).
Emma Edge signed with an X.


*Emma Owen died November 1895 aged 58 so born c1837.
(This leads me to think she was probably born between June and November 1837).



But, back to the main point, trying to check I have the right details for Emma Edge.
I know her Father is William Edge, a labourer and everything is pointing towards her birth date of c1837 - 1838.


This is the most likely looking 1861 census, her mother is Margaret a widow.
Emma is given as date of birth c1837.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1861%2c&rank=0&gsfn=emma&gsln=edge&sx=&gsco=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12=&f13=&f27=&f14=shropshire&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=1861UKI&fh=2&h=19664948&recoff=1+2

The same family on 1851, again giving Emma as born c1837, is with parents Margaret and William, a labourer.

This family have some unusual names, including a Noah.

Which leads me to think this is the family in 1841:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=SALHO107_909_910-0110&fn=Noah&ln=Edge&st=d&ssrc=&pid=9560427

Emma is given as four years old so born c1837.



I just wondered if people would mind checking it over and that the logic followed is sound.

Sorry for the rambling and hope you can make some sort of order out of it.

[kiterunner]

On the 1861 census, John and Sarah Owen have a son Henry age 14, an Ironstone Miner, and on the 1871 census there is a Henry Owen age 25, Ironstone Miner, married to Rachael, and they have a daughter Sarah age 4 born Shifnal. In 1881 Rachael is in Shifnal and her daughter Sarah age 14 born "P of Shifnal" is with her. This should mean that the Sarah who is with grandparents John and Sarah definitely isn't this Sarah, but it has been known for someone to be listed twice on the census, once at home and once where they're staying for the night.

[kiterunner]

Okay, and Emma's birthplace on that 1891 census looks like Salop Oakengates, so this looks like her in 1871 at Maesbury, Shropshire, except husband's occupation is wrong and they haven't got a son John with them, oh, and she's too young!:
Thomas Owen(s?) Head Mar 25 Miller Salop Maesbury
Emma Do Wife Mar 28 Do Okengates.

Hmm, have to look at this one tomorrow! It's tricky.

[kiterunner]

My Nana knew that Sarah had three Uncles, John, Thomas and Albert who all lived in Altofts as they were still around when she was born.

This is Sarah's three brothers with their Mother at the time of the 1891 census, living in Altofts:

Wait... are John, Thomas and Albert Sarah's uncles or her brothers?

[Tom Tom]

Hi Kate

John, Thomas and Albert are Sarah's brothers. (Emma's sons).

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Tom.

Do you know who Margery Wood is on that 1891 census entry? She is shown as Emma's Gd Daur age 3 months, born Lambeth London.

And do you know who Margaret Owen was? (the witness at Sarah's marriage)


Also Sarah's birthplace on the 1891 census is Shropshire Snensall which doesn't exist as far as I can see, and is probably supposed to be Shifnal, but could it be supposed to be Snedshill? Just thought I would mention it so I don't forget.

[Tom Tom]

No and no Kate.

Sarah's daughter was called Marjorie so there could be some family link. It is possible that Emma had another daughter (who married Mr Wood) but I have never been able to find anything.

I know about the 1891 census, but always presumed it was supposed to Shifnal because that is where Sarah's mum (Emma) was from.

This is all very confusing!

[kiterunner]

Have you got a marriage certificate for any of Sarah's brothers?

Edit - or any of their birth certificates?

[kiterunner]

And another question - do you know for sure that the birth certificate you have for Sarah is definitely your Sarah?

[kiterunner]

Oooooh, there is a birth on FreeBMD for a Margerie Wood Owen Jan-Mar 1891 Lambeth!

[Tom Tom]

Ooo that looks interesting Kate!


John's marriage in Carlton, Yorkshire 1896

John Owen 26 Bachelor Miner 16 Albert Terrace Altofts Thomas Owen Miner
Fanny Owen 21 Spinster --- ??? Lane, Carlton Reuben Owen Miner

Witnesses at the wedding were S. Owen and W. Chilton



Thomas' marriage in Altofts 1896

Thomas Owen 23 Bachelor Miner Altofts Thomas Owen Miner
Sarah Overton 24 Spinster --- Altofts Edward Overton Miner

Sarah signed with an X.

Witnesses were Richard and Rachel Overton


Don't have Albert's marriage but he married a Sarah Elizabeth Owen.

[Tom Tom]

I think I am going to have to order that birth certificate now and possibly a couple of Sarah's brothers.

Will have a think about which one(s) to order.

What do you think?

[Tom Tom]

Think it would be best to start with Albert.

There is one in OND 1879 and one in AMJ 1880 so can ring Wakefield RO up tomorrow and ask them to send the one from Altofts whose father is Thomas.

[kiterunner]

Yes, if Thomas was Albert's father!
Maybe it would be safer to specify the mother has to be Emma?

[kiterunner]

Anyway, glad to see that John and Thomas both say their father was Thomas Owen, a miner, on their marriage certs. But they don't say he was deceased...?

If anyone else is having a go at this, we still haven't found Thomas sr, Emma, Sarah and John on the 1871 census. Thomas was born about 1839-40 at Street Lane, Wellington, Shropshire. (And I'm also glad to see that Thomas's father John has the occupation Chartermaster on the 1871 census, which matches Thomas's marriage cert.)

[Tom Tom]

Yes Kate, he may not have been Thomas' son.

Something seems strange about this as I have never been able to find a death.

I will ring and order his cert tomorrow (haven't had time today) and will order Marjerie Wood Owen's birth cert as well.

[Tom Tom]

A couple of certs have arrived now.

Margerie Wood Owen birth, 23rd December 1890 at 39 Hercules Road Lambeth. No Father, Mother is Margaret Owen a Bookkeeper at a Hotel.
Birth registered by M Owen, Mother on 30th January 1891 (abode 39 Hercules Road).


John Owen birth, 21st February 1870 at Snedshill Shifnal, Staffordshire. Father Thomas Owen a Stone Miner and Mother Emma Owen formerly Edge. Birth registered by Emma Owen (X) Mother on 2nd March 1870.


Can't seem to find a Margaret Owen living in Lambeth on the 1891 census who might be the mother. I feel sure the Margerie Wood living with Emma in 1891 must be the one whose birth cert details are at the start of this post.

[kiterunner]

Yes, I'm sure that must be her. I had a feeling her mother would be Margaret! We know Margaret was still alive (and still called Owen) after the 1891 census because she was a witness at Sarah's wedding, well, assuming it's the same Margaret, so she should be around somewhere. She might be going by the surname Wood on the census though?

I would say that John's birth certificate confirms you have the right family for Sarah.

[kiterunner]

Oh, and the fact that Emma had a daughter called Margaret goes nicely with Emma's mother being Margaret, doesn't it?

[kiterunner]

There is a Margaret Owen birth registered in Shiffnal Oct-Dec 1866 who is probably the one we're looking for, to give us some idea of what age she should be. (Thomas and Emma got married in 1865 so she fits in nicely between that and Sarah's birth in 1868, then John was born 1870). Also gives us someone else to look for in 1871!

[Tom Tom]

Yes I agree Kate, it is pulling everything together.

I keep looking for the 1871 census but still can't find them! :(

[kiterunner]

39 Hercules Road in 1891:
Joseph Pritchard Head M 39 Harness-maker Wilts Corsham
Catherine do Wife M 39 Herts Ware
Walter C Pritchard Son 14 Harness-maker London Brixton
Jane C Do Daur 12 Do Peckham
Lottie L Do Daur 9 do Lambeth
Joseph Renshaw Boarder Widr 66 Living on his own means Do St James
Henry Harris Do S 27 Book-keeper Herefordshire Malvern.

So most likely Margaret was a boarder there but had left by then or was away for census night.

Edit - sorry, there are two other households at the address but they don't look to have any connection with Margaret either.

[Tom Tom]

Thanks Kate. I imagine she was just boarding there. I wonder what hotel she worked at? A book keeper would have been quite a good job for a young unmarried woman I would have thought.

[Tom Tom]

There is a Margaret Owen birth registered in Shiffnal Oct-Dec 1866 who is probably the one we're looking for, to give us some idea of what age she should be. (Thomas and Emma got married in 1865 so she fits in nicely between that and Sarah's birth in 1868, then John was born 1870). Also gives us someone else to look for in 1871!



It's been a few years and I was up the tree trying to tidy a few bits.

Margaret's birth entry on the GRO website gives her MMN as Edges, so happy it is her.

Now need to find out what happened to her and the the baby!

[kiterunner]

Blimey, this is a blast from the past, Tom! I will read back through.

[kiterunner]

So Marjorie / Margery is the baby you refer to, right? This is what I have gleaned from re-reading the thread:

Margerie Wood Owen born 23 Dec 1890 at 39 Hercules Road, Lambeth. Mother Margaret Owen, bookkeeper at a hotel.

Margery Wood 3 months old on 1891 census with grandmother Emma Owen in Altofts, Yorkshire.

Margaret Owen born 1866 Shifnal district.

And Margaret has not been found on any censuses yet, and her family hasn't been found in 1871 yet - there should be Emma Owen born about 1837 Oakengates, Shropshire, Margaret, and John born about 1870 Oakengates. Is that right?

[kiterunner]

Not sure if this was already on the thread, but it looks as though Thomas Owen married Emma Edge Jan-Mar 1865 Shifnal district.

[kiterunner]

There are an Owen / Edge daughter Sarah born 1868 and a son Robert born 1867 on the online GRO birth index.

[Tom Tom]

So Marjorie / Margery is the baby you refer to, right? This is what I have gleaned from re-reading the thread:

Margerie Wood Owen born 23 Dec 1890 at 39 Hercules Road, Lambeth. Mother Margaret Owen, bookkeeper at a hotel.

Margery Wood 3 months old on 1891 census with grandmother Emma Owen in Altofts, Yorkshire.

Margaret Owen born 1866 Shifnal district.

And Margaret has not been found on any censuses yet, and her family hasn't been found in 1871 yet - there should be Emma Owen born about 1837 Oakengates, Shropshire, Margaret, and John born about 1870 Oakengates. Is that right?


Yes. Absolutely. I did find a potential for Margaret as a servant in 1881 to a Draper.

Thomas Owen, born 1840, Street Lane, Wellington.
Emma (Edge), born c1838 Shiffinal, Shropshire

Emma's son Henry Edge (born 1859), then Thomas and Emma's children: Margaret (1866), Sarah (1868), John (1870), Thomas (1873), Albert (1879).

Albert isn't Thomas' son as far as I can tell. Father is unknown.

[kiterunner]

There is also a Rachel Harriet born 1865 and died later the same year. Doesn't help with census searching though, but just for completeness' sake.

[Tom Tom]

Thanks Kate. I've added her to the tree.

Edit to add, also found a Robert in 1867, but I've just remembered that Emma's sister, Eliza, married a Thomas Owen (born same year as Emma's Thomas), so not sure which one Robert belongs to.