Hannah Stead - Horsforth nr Leeds - MMMMM

[Janet]

I've created a whole new summary in blue below for the information I now have.

The rest of the thread is a rather confused first attempt from two years ago.

================================================== ===
MMMMM Hannah Stead

Name - Hannah Stead

Date and place of birth - bef. 4 Aug 1773, Horsforth nr. Leeds, Yorks.

Names of parents - Henry Stead and ?

Date and place of baptism - 4 Aug 1773, Horsforth Chapel (Guiseley and Horsforth, Yorkshire)

Details of each of his or her marriages - 24 Mar 1794, Guiseley and Horsforth, Yorkshire, England, to Thomas Jackson
(The PR says married in Guiseley Church.)

Occupation(s) - ?

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - Horsforth/Rawdon nr Leeds, Yorks. (not sure which, or both; they are next to each other)

I should be able to find her on the 1841 and 1851 but not had any luck so far.

Date, place and cause of death - 17 Feb. 1855, age 81 (gravestone in Rawdon St Peter's cemetery), place and cause unknown

Date and place of burial - 1855, Rawdon St Peter's

Details of will / administration of their estate -

Memorial inscription -
HERE
lieth the Body of
Hannah Daughter of
Thomas and Hannah
Jackson of Horsforth who
died Jan.y 23rd, 1800 aged 1 Year.
Also John Son of the abovesaid
who died Feb.y 1,st 1800 aged 5 Years.
Also Sarah and Frances who died
in their Infancy.
Also Thomas Son of the abovesaid
who died May 31,st 1808 aged 2 Years.
Also Mary Daughter of the abovesaid
who died Jan.y 18,th 1810 aged 2 Years.
Also Thomas the Father of
the above named Children, who
departed this Life the 25th of
May 1835 Aged 63 Years.
Also Hannah the Wife of the <<<<<<
above named who departed <<<<<<
this Life the 17th of Febr 1855 <<<<<<
Aged 81 Years. <<<<<<
In Life Respected
In Death Lamented

Many many thanks for this to the Gravestone Photographic Resource website, Charles Sale its leading light, and volunteer Trevor Langridge who took and indexed the photograph of my Jackson family's gravestone. I am forever deeply indebted.

Note: Not sure who the Hannah Jackson in Kite's post #3 is; obviously not my MMMMM, and not their daughter Hannah either, who died as an infant in 1800. EDIT: Oops, very sorry! I was confusing this thread with another one, for her husband Thomas Jackson. Here is the thread containing that post:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...ad.php?t=10491

================================================== ===

[My mother's mother's mother was Elizabeth Crampton.] Elizabeth Crampton's mother was Ann Jackson Crampton b1811? Horsforth, living with Elizabeth's sister Esther A. Smith [Esther A. Crampton] and son-in-law James Smith at Barwick Road Temple Grove, Barwick in Elmet, in 1881 UK census.

Ann's mother was perhaps married to someone named Jackson in Horsforth, but her identity is still lost in the mists of time.

If I haven't managed this post correctly I hope that someone will correct me. Was I supposed to figure out how to start a new thread rather than simply hitting the Reply button? I couldn't find the way. Anyway, please let me know if I need to clean up my act.

I'll be out of town this coming Sunday through next Sunday the 15th, but will keep checking until then and jump back in soon after I get back. All insights most gratefully accepted!

Thanks all,
Janet

[kiterunner]

Don't worry, Janet, I've moved it into a thread of its own for you.

[kiterunner]

So, working backwards from that 1881, this is Ann in 1871:
Church Lane, Chapel Allerton, Leeds, Yorkshire
David Crampton Head Mar 64 Mason Master Yorkshire Meanwood
Ann Do Wife Mar 60 Do Horsforth
Sarah Do Daur Unm 30 Dress Maker Do Meanwood
John Do Son Unm 25 Mason Do Meanwood
Esther Ann Do Daur 16 Do Meanwood
John Wm Wilson Grandson 8 Scholar Do Headingley

[kiterunner]

And 1861 at Rose Cottage, Headingley:
David Crampton Head Mar 54 Mason Meanwood
Ann Crampton Wife Mar 50 Horsforth
Sarah Crampton Dau Un 20 Dressmaker Meanwood
Thomas Crampton Son 17 Apprentice Meanwood
John Crampton Son 15 Apprentice Do
Hannah Crampton Dau 12 Scholar Do
Esther A Crampton Dau 6 Scholar Do

[kiterunner]

1851 at Chapel Allerton / Meanwood
David Crampton Head Mar 44 Mason Yorks Meanwood
Anne Crampton Wife Mar 40 " Horsforth
Elizabeth Do Daur 12 " Meanwood
Sarah Do Daur 10 Scholar " Do
Thomas Do Son 7 Do " Do
John Do Son 5 Do " Do
Hannah Do Daur 2 "Do
Joseph Do Son 7 mo " Do

[Tom Tom]

I will be able to go to the West Yorkshire Archive service at some point (either Leeds or Bradford) and could check Horsforth PRs for things if you would like me to?

Probably won't be for quite a few weeks though.

[kiterunner]

When you say that Elizabeth's mother was Ann Jackson Crampton, do you mean that she was Ann Jackson who married David Crampton 6 Aug 1836 at St Peter, Leeds? I can't see her name given as Ann Jackson Crampton anywhere else? So Jackson was her maiden name rather than her middle name?

I'm trying to find David and Ann on the 1841 census in the faint hope that Ann's mother will be with them to give us a name for the person this thread is about! (But no luck with that yet) If Tom can get the chance to look at the marriage in the parish register it will give us the witnesses' names which might help.

Also looking for Ann's baptism but no luck there yet either.

[kiterunner]

Found them in 1841 on findmypast but it is only David, Ann, Elizabeth and Sarah, no Jacksons with them.

[kiterunner]

And I can't find her (Ann Jackson's) baptism online but maybe Tom can look for that at the archives too? Should be Horsforth about 1810 to 1811.

[Janet]

KiteRunner, this is simply marvelous! I can see I've come to the right place. It was my own mother who quoted the name "Ann Jackson Crampton" to me before she died so that I would understand the lineage. Yes, my MMMM's maiden name was Ann Jackson and she married a Crampton. You've just given me his first name and all the rest of the family, which I did not have, so already I am supremely happy. Thank you so much, and thanks to Tom in advance if he can help me out as well. There is no rush whatsoever, and I will be very grateful for any and all assistance.
Thank you, thank you, thank you,
Janet

[Janet]

KiteRunner and Tom Tom,

Do you think I might have found my Ann Jackson here?

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=500174265443&lds=1&region=2&regionfriendly=British+Isles&frompage=99

Also here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Transcriptions/WRY/HorsforthBaptisms1800-1812.html

This person's birthdate is 1810 07 29. In the 1881 census Ann is seen as Esther Smith's mother, Ann Crampton, age 70--which she effectively would have been in the first half of 1881 if she was born in July 1810. (I think the 1881 census was conducted on the 3rd of April? Anyway they did round too.)

If this is she, then I now have my MMMMF and his occupation, clothier, but still not my MMMMM. What do you think?

Thanks so much for your help,
Janet

[Merry]

I'd say it's extremely likely to be the right baptism. Don't forget, the date is for her baptism rather than her birth, so as there's no birth date recorded you can't be sure how old she was at baptism, except that the census ages would suggest she was a baby. (and watch out that in the UK we write the date the other way round, so I always type the month name to be sure there's no confusion!).

I wouldn't worry about absolutely exact ages from the census records. It's pretty unusual to find anyone who appears on more than a couple of censuses and is spot on with their age every time! Most people jump a year or two from census to census and some a lot more. In theory it was only the 1841 census inthe UK where ages were supposed to be rounded. I see Ann's age was a round number every time, so she is one of the unusual people!!

Within the same batch on the IGI there are all these with father's name Thomas Jackson, so likely siblings for Ann. Sadly, the vicar didn't go in for mothers name at all :(

1. SARAH JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 JUN 1795 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

2. MARY JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 31 JAN 1808 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

3. JOHN JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 21 AUG 1796 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

4. JOHN JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 07 MAR 1802 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

5. HENRY JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 AUG 1804 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

6. THOMAS JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 MAY 1806 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

7. FRANCES JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 17 AUG 1800 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

8. HANNAH JACKSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 29 APR 1798 Horsforth, Yorkshire, England

[kiterunner]

Yes, looks very likely to me too.

[Janet]

Oh, thanks both of you! What a lovely way to wake up this morning. I did think so too, but I don't have your experience. Yes, I do know about the English dates and I keep an eye out, thanks, Merry. And thank you so much for pulling up all these names for me.
Janet

[Janet]

Bumping this up because of new info inserted into post #1 today.

[kiterunner]

Note: Not sure who the Hannah Jackson in Kite's post #3 is; obviously not my MMMMM, and not their daughter Hannah either, who died as an infant in 1800.


Sorry, I've reread this thread several times but I still can't see where I've posted a Hannah Jackson?

[kiterunner]

Hmmmm, the only burial at Rawdon in Feb 1855 which fits is Hannah Webster 21 Feb 1855, abode Horsforth, age 81. I'm sure I've seen her on the censuses, will go back and look at her properly now!

[kiterunner]

So this is probably her in 1851:
Chapel Green, Horsforth, Yorkshire
William Webster Head Mar 78
Hannah Webster Wife Mar 77
Montague H Graham Lodger U 20 Teacher in Boarding School Wales Glamorganshire

And this looks like her in 1841, mistranscribed as Yachson on ancestry (I will submit a correction):
Chapel Green, Horsforth, Guiseley, Yorkshire
Hannah Jackson 60 Ind Y
Elizabeth Do 25 Cloth Burler Y

So, this is the marriage and it is on ancestry!
10th April 1845 Guiseley Parish Church
William Webster, full age, widow, farmer, residence Horsforth, father Martin Webster, farmer
Hannah Jackson, full age, widower (sic), residence Horsforth, father Henry Stead, paper maker.
Witnesses John Hardaker and David something.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2253&iid=32355_249477-00622&fn=William&ln=Webster&st=d&ssrc=&pid=7557075

[kiterunner]

Elizabeth's baptism is also on ancestry, 29 May 1814 Horsforth, parents Thomas and Hannah, paper maker, and there is a George 12 May 1816 too.

[borobabs]

Wow Kate Janet will be buzzing well done , shame carnt link this family up with my Ralph Jackson Readman

[Janet]

Oh that is such great information, Kite, thank you so much.

I really apologize for the confusion. I shouldn't burn the midnight oil and I might not make these mistakes (then again, I probably still would :o). Anyway, it was her first husband's thread I was looking at:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10491

I haven't taken all this in yet. Coffee first! :d

[Janet]

Have been chewing over the circumstances of her burial in Rawdon. Although remarried to William Webster, she was nevertheless buried with Thomas Jackson and several of their children.

I'm quite comfortable in my mind that the second marriage and the censuses you found are the right ones, Kite, because everything fits. The marriage to William Webster citing her father Henry Stead the paper maker, her age, the presence of her daughter Elizabeth, Elizabeth's occupation. And then the burial at Rawdon, 21 Feb 1855, of Hannah Webster, abode Horsforth, age 81. Perfect!

And then it hit me that I already had her on a gravestone with her first husband Thomas Jackson and all their children who died young. How could she be buried as Hannah Jackson when she's remarried and is now known as Hannah Webster? I walked around talking to myself for a couple days.

Then I came back and read the memorial inscription again and marveled at how artfully they have danced around the facts. The stone doesn't lie; it never mentions her surname at death:

Also Thomas the Father of
the above named Children, who
departed this Life the 25th of
May 1835 Aged 63 Years.
Also Hannah the Wife of the
above named who departed
this Life the 17th of Febr 1855
Aged 81 Years.

And again, the dates fit beautifully: death 17 Feb 1855, burial 21 Feb 1855, so it can't be anyone else. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. It might have been nothing but hard economics. Perhaps the Jackson grave was already paid for, and William Webster's family had no money for a proper burial.

I wonder if anyone else has run across a similar story?

[kiterunner]

Maybe William and Hannah agreed when they married that they would both be buried with their first spouses?

[Janet]

Ah, what a lovely thought. Thanks, Kite. :)

[Janet]

Just a postscript to this very satisfying thread. My second cousin once removed still lives in the same place where Hannah Stead spent her life. On the basis of the details we worked out here, he was able to go right out to the graveyard and send me a photo of her grave the very next day. His twin sons attend the primary school in the church to which this graveyard is attached.