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Joy Dean
31-10-10, 14:08
Joseph Barber Brooks

Date and place of birth
3 September 1808

Names of parents
Robert and Elizabeth (née Gifford) Brooks

Date and place of baptism
2 October 1808 St James, Westminster

Details of his marriage
23 October 1830 to Harriet Elizabeth France at St George's, Hanover Square.

Occupation
Joseph was a frame maker according to his son Joseph's baptismal record, and a carver and guilder according to his son's marriage certificate; from more information, below - apprentice to a looking glass-maker, carver and gilder, and picture frame, and looking-glass manufacturer.


Addresses
Denmark Street, Soho, Wardour Street, Soho, 139 High Holborn, all in Middlesex
Silver Street, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
24 Anderson's Buildings, City Road Middlesex

Date, place and cause of death
Not yet discovered.


More information about him:
The Matters of the PETITIONS and SCHEDULES of the PRISONERS hereafter named (the same having been filed in the Court) are appointed to be heard at the Court House, in Portugal Street, Lincoln's-Inn-Fields, on Monday the 23rd day of December 1833, at Nine o'Clock in the Forenoon.

Brooks, Joseph Barber (sued by the name of Joseph B. Brooks), formerly of Denmark Street, Soho, Apprentice to a Looking Glass-Maker, then of Wardour Street, Soho, then of No. 139 High Holborn, all in Middlesex, then of Silver Street, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, and late of No. 24 Anderson's Buildings, City Road Middlesex aforesaid, Carver and Gilder, and Picture Frame, and Looking-Glass Manufacturer.

Merry
02-11-10, 19:56
I know it's not much later, but the last mention I can find of him in the newspaper is in The Morning Post (London, England), Tuesday, February 11, 1834, when his case in the insolvent debtors' court in Portugal Street was held over until the following day.

Merry
02-11-10, 20:00
Oops, I've just seen that I already said that in July 2008 on another site! lol

Joy Dean
02-11-10, 21:47
Oops, I've just seen that I already said that in July 2008 on another site! lol

And I must have forgotten to note it on my computer! :)
Done it now.

And then he disappeared ...

Merry
03-11-10, 12:50
Do you have the will of Robert France, framemaker (1842)? I wondered when it was written and, if he left his dau anything, what her status was at that date? Rather a long shot for making a difference! lol

Joy Dean
03-11-10, 14:52
Just browsing newspapers again (using my library ticket) - and getting nowhere fast other than - The Morning Chronicle (London, England), Monday, February 10, 1834; Issue 20112.

Now that's a good thought, Merry :-)
A cousin obtained some wills a while back. I seem to be amassing masses of information. I wonder if I have a copy of his. Off to go through a pile of papers ....

Joy Dean
03-11-10, 14:59
Oh my word ... one for Robert Brooks, one for Harriet Brooks - ah, Robert France - shall try to decipher the small neat-looking writing. Back later.

Merry
03-11-10, 19:27
Any luck?

Joy Dean
03-11-10, 22:19
I don't think so, but have been going cross-eyed trying to read it! I don't think she is mentioned in it.

I have scanned it which makes it a little easier to read - may I email it to you (tonight or tomorrow) to see what you think?

Merry
04-11-10, 06:57
OK (*hopes it isn't a 20 page one!!*). Have you got me addy? :)

Joy Dean
04-11-10, 12:18
Not a 20 page one :)

They are on their way.

Merry
04-11-10, 12:28
lol!

I will just eat my sandwich and then have a look!

Merry
04-11-10, 14:25
This is the last will and testament of me Robert France of Denmark Street in thr parish of St Giles in the Fields in the county of Middlesex frame maker First I direct the payment of all my just debts testamentary and funeral expenses subject thereto I give devise and bequeath all that my freehold house sites in Denmark Street aforesaid with the appurtenances thereunto belonging unto my dear wife Sarah France to hold to her my said wife for and during the term of her natural life for her own sole and absolute use and benefit independent of any husband she may hereafter intermarry with and from and after her decease I give devise and bequeath the same to and amongst William Francis France my son begotten on the body of Elizabeth France formerly Elizabeth Chopp??? spinster my first wife Harriet Elizabeth France Robert William France Henry France George Johnson France Charles Augustus France Frederick Spencer Adolphus France and Sarah Mary Ann France my children by my said wife Sarah France or such of them that shall be living at my decease to hold to them my said children in equal shares and proportions but in the event of the death of any or either of them leaving issue such issue is hereinby excluded from any interest in the part or share to which his or her parent or parents my child or children would have been entitled to if living at the time of my death As to all such other property as I may be possessed of interested in or entitled unto at the time of my death whether in possession reversion remainder or expectancy I dispose thereof as follows that is to say I give and bequeath all my household furniture linen china plate and utensils incident to housekeeping and ready money which shall be in my dwelling house at the time of my death unto my said wife Sarah France to and for her own sole absolute use and disposal to hold to her executors administrators and assigns absolutely for ever without being liable to render an amount to any person or persons whomsoever for the same And as to for and containing all the rest residue and remainder of my estate and effects of what nature kind and quality soever and particularly the lease of my now dwelling house shop yard and premises situate at No 16 (?) Denmark Street aforesaid my stock in trade and materials incident thereto tools books debts bond debts bills of exchange money in the funds and the interest and dividends that may be payable thereon at the time of my decease also the sum of fifty guineas that will be due to me at my decease from the Samaritan Society held at the White Hart Public House in the City of London or from any other Society in which I may have any interest at the time of my death and all other my property whatsoever and wheresoever I give and bequeath the same and every part thereof unto my said wife Sarah France upon the trusts and for the ends intents and purposes and under and subject as after mentioned that is to say upon trust that my said wife Sarah France shall continue to reside in my said dwellinghouse and carry on the business thereof during her life as she shall think proper and without being subject to the control of any husband whom she may hereafter marry and after the death of my said wife the said Sarah France my will is that all my sons who shall have attained twentyone years of age or the survivors or survivor of them shall receive my said freehold house No 24 (?) Denmark Street aforesaid and the lease of my said dwelling house and premises No 16 (?) in Denmark Street together with the fixtures therein stock in trade and everything else that my said wife Sarah France shall leave on the aforesaid premises to be sold by public auction or private contract for the best price that can be obtained for the same and the purchase or consideration money divided between themselves and such other of my said children as shall be living at the time of the decease of my said wife the said Sarah France equally to be divided between them share and share alike And I hereby order and direct that the receipt or receipts of my said sons or the survivor of them shall be a sufficient discharge to the purchaser or purchasers thereof nor shall he or they be answerable or accountable for the misapplication or nonapplication thereof And I further will and direct that my said wife the said Sarah France shall receive the interest and dividends that shall accrue due on my aforesaid money in the funds during her natural life for her own use and benefit without its being subject to the control debts or engagements of any husband whom she may hereafter marry to enable her to bring up maintain and support until they arrive at a proper age to shift for themselves all such children as I may have by her at my decease And I will and direct that my said wife Sarah France shall be allowed to draw out of my aforesaid money in the funds the sum of thirty pounds for the apprenticeship out or advancement in the world of each of my said sons or such of them as shall arrive at an age to require it or as my said wife the said Sarah France shall think most expedient And from and after the death of my said wife the said Sarah France I give and bequeath all such capital stock and all other my property of every description both real and personal and the residue thereof unto and among all such my child and children that is to say the said William Francis France begotten on the body of Elizabeth France my first wife and all such the child and children of the said Sarah France as shall be living at the time of her death to be equally divided between and among them share and share alike and if there shall be but one such child them living in that case I give and bequeath the whole of such capital stock and funds and residue to such one only surviving child absolutely and in the event of all my said children dying in her lifetime then and in that case and from and after the death of such surviving child I do hereby give and bequeath unto my said wife the said Sarah France all such capital stock and all other my property of every description both real and personal and the rest and residue thereof as aforesaid to and for her own sole absolute exclusive use benefit and disposal and independent of any husband she may hereafter marry as aforesaid And I do hereby nominate and appoint my said wife the said Sarah France sole executrix of this my last will and testament hereby revoking all former and other will at any time by me heretofore made and do declare this only to be and contain my last will and testament witness whereof I have to this my ast will and testament contained in three sheets of paper the same having previously been read over and explained to me to the first two sheets thereof subscribed my name and to this third and last sheet subscribed my name and affixed my seal this seventh day of July one thousand eight hundred and thirty one Robert France SS signed sealed published and declared by the testator Robert France as and for his last will and testament in the presence of us who in his presence at his request and in the presence of each other have hereunto subscribed out names as witnesses (I can't read the names very well!!) Edward Pritchard Rowland (something) Thomas Burbridge Robert Johns his clerk

Proved at London 28th December 1842 before the worshipful Augustus Frederick Bayford Doctor of Laws and Surrogate by the oath of Sarah France widow the Relict the sole Executrix to whom administration was granted having been first sworn duly to administer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

So, he wrote this will during the marriage of his daughter, but called her by her maiden surname! lol Not much help in that quarter then!!!

Joy Dean
04-11-10, 21:03
Merry! That is amazing! Thank you so much. Did your eyes go cross-eyed?! They didn't seem to like punctuation nor paragraphs, did they?!

His first wife's surname was Chopping.

Yes, how strange that Harriet is referred to as Harriet France and not Brooks; she had married in 1830. Perhaps he wasn't keen on his son-in-law?

I am glad to read that it had been read and explained to him!

He omitted two other children - Sarah born 1814 and Maria Louisa born 1818, maybe they had died by the time that he made his will in 1831.

Edited - just found in ancestry that Maria died in 1821, and that Sarah, too, died in 1821.

A little more information for you about him:
From Dictionary of English furniture makers: "France, Robert, Soho, London, carver, gilder and frame maker (1808-35).
Recorded at 9 Crown Street in 1808 and Denmark St 1820-35, no. 16 in 1835.
1841 census Picture frame maker, age 69, Sarah age 62, not born in county, Harriett age 36 and William age 11 - 24 Denmark Street, St Giles in the Fields.
He died 4 December 1842 24 Denmark Street.

Merry
04-11-10, 22:46
They didn't do punctuation as if they did it might be possible to change the meaning by adding further punctuation! Personally I think it makes it very easy to misunderstand, but that's probably just me! lol

I keep wondering if actually Joseph BB did a bunk and Harriet didn't actually know if she was a widow or not? I've no reason to say this, as obviously there is probably a burial out there for Joseph BB, just not showing anywhere yet!

When did his parents die?

Joy Dean
04-11-10, 23:00
I don't know when they died, yet. I only know that they married 20 July 1794 St Leonards, Shoreditch, and that they had six children between 29 April 1795 and 3 September 1808, baptised at St James, Westminster.

He's a puzzle, isn't he?

Merry
05-11-10, 06:53
Oh my word ... one for Robert Brooks

Ah, so this isn't dad then?

I think ancestors seem even more puzzling when they have an unusual name like JBB!

Merry
05-11-10, 07:00
Do you know the occ of Robert Brooks, JBB's father?

Joy Dean
05-11-10, 08:03
Ah, so this isn't dad then?

I think ancestors seem even more puzzling when they have an unusual name like JBB!

Me, too!
I don't know if he is the right one. A cousin sent the will to me. Would you like to see it? :)
I have sent an email to her asking if it is for him and, if so, how she knows it is him.

If you look on ancestry, you will see one more Joseph Barber Brooks - he is my great-uncle.

Joy Dean
05-11-10, 08:12
Do you know the occ of Robert Brooks, JBB's father?

No :(

Merry
05-11-10, 09:16
Me, too!
A cousin sent the will to me. Would you like to see it?


Yeh, go on then!

If you don't know Robert Brooks occ is that because it's not recorded on his childrens baptisms, or because you haven't seen the original record?

UPDATE: I've just seen the bap on the LMA index.....so, no occ recorded!

Joy Dean
05-11-10, 10:53
The will is on A3 paper :) but shall still have a go at scanning - would be easier if I drove eastwards ... :)

No, no occ recorded :(

Joy Dean
05-11-10, 13:21
It is on its way :)

Merry
05-11-10, 13:50
Thanks.

I don't have time to type out the whole thing today, but I jut read it and he seems to leave everything to his wife (will signed 3rd April 1808). The will wasn't proved until 1832. However, I can't read the additional bit written in the margin on the left hand side. Can you?

Joy Dean
05-11-10, 14:15
Some of it, with great difficulty! :):eek:
Something like -
On the 1st March 1847 Admon (with the will annexed?) of the Goods Chattels and Credits of Robert Brooks formerly of Newmarket Terrace Hackney Road but late of ? Street in the Parish of Saint John Wapping in the County of Middlesex deceased left ? by Elizabeth Brooks Widow deceased whilst living the Relict of the said ? the sole Executrix ?????????? the said Will was granted to Mary Wickens (wife of James Wickens) one of the natural and surviving children and as such one of the Universal (?) Legatees in the said will having ? first sworn by Commission duty to administer the said Elizabeth Brooks having died intestate.

So, maybe it is not my Robert as the name Wickens means nothing to me.

Merry
05-11-10, 14:25
Did your JBB have a sister called Mary and if he did, who did she marry?

Joy Dean
05-11-10, 14:50
He does have a sister Mary - Mary Elizabeth Brooks baptised 24 May 1795 - but I haven't found a marriage for her; he also had a sister Eliza Judith baptised 2 April 1797, Jane Sarah baptised 3 June 1804, and Anna Maria baptised 3 April 1806 - all at St James, Westminster.

Edited - I have discovered nothing else about any of the sisters.

Merry
08-11-10, 09:08
Ok, so to prove the will of Robert Brooks isn't the father of JBB we have to show that Mary (Mrs James Wickens) isn't the same person as Mary Elizabeth Brooks baptised 24 May 1795.

Here is the marriage of the daughter of the testator:

Groom's Name: James Wickens
Bride's Name: Mary Brooks
Marriage Date: 1843
Marriage Place: Croydon, Surrey, England
Groom's Father's Name: James Wickens
Bride's Father's Name: Robert Brooks
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M09865-8
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 994335
Reference Number: 2:3FKS2DV
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973


Sadly I've not been able to find a certain, or very likely, match for the above couple on the censuses, but circumstantial evidence would suggest this Mrs Wickens isn't your Mary Elizabeth Brooks because the above bride has no middle name and spinsters marrying in their late 40s are pretty rare at that date, I think.

Joy Dean
08-11-10, 21:05
Oh, thank you, Merry, that is kind of you.



I am ploughing my way through the burial records at St James, Westminster but other things in life get in the way now and then. :)
Am in 1804. Some lovely names such as Tryphena and I like the old way of spelling ie the f instead of an s - Clarifsa ... then I saw the surname Millhouse, and thought of the Simpsons! :D
Here's a first name I'd not seen before - Hippolite-Antoine - "ordinary" surname Martin.

Joy Dean
20-07-17, 14:25
Yeh, go on then!

If you don't know Robert Brooks occ is that because it's not recorded on his childrens baptisms, or because you haven't seen the original record?

UPDATE: I've just seen the bap on the LMA index.....so, no occ recorded!

Robert was a coal merchant, according to directories and to the indenture of their elder son Robert Gifford Brooks.

Joy Dean
20-07-17, 15:22
Something I had mislaid:
Joseph Barber Brooks was sentenced to 9 calendar months on 12th February, 1834. He was in the debtors prison.