Opinions please?

[Punchs Mum]

When the 1911 census became available I discovered that my Grandmother had an illegitimate baby which was brought up by her parents as her 'sister'.
I have the birth cert. but there is no father named.

Would it have been possible for my Grandmother to register the baby as hers when, in fact, it was her 16 year old sisters baby??

The reason I ask is because the daughter of the illegitimate baby and I have been looking at photos and are amazed at the strong likeness between the 16year old sister and illegitimate baby.

All this only came to light through the 1911 Census. I have also found out that the sister who we suspect may be the mother spent 60 years of her life in a Mental Institution and died as recently as 1991!! She apparently had schizophrenia. Very sad as these days it can be treated.

Hope this makes sense! Was just asking if falsely registering the baby was common back in 1908. The baby was registered by my Grandmother herself.

Lesley

[kiterunner]

I have heard of cases where the unmarried mother's parents registered an illegitimate baby as theirs, and I can imagine a married sister doing it, but it seems very unlikely that an unmarried sister would, doesn't it?

[Punchs Mum]

Never thought of it like that Kiterunner.

Thinking about it, yes, why would she register the baby as hers when it wasn't? Was wondering if the 16 year old sister was showing signs of mental illness and it was to avoid her being taken in to care. She was 30 when she was eventually admitted to the Mental Hospital.

Lesley

[Asa]

Sounds a bit unlikely to me. I look far more like an uncle than I do my mother.

[Nell]

Why would anyone take her into care? I presume her parents were looking after her, unless they asked for help I can't see anyone else getting involved.

But to answer your original question, I don't think anyone would question a woman who registers a baby as her own in those days. Now I think hospitals have to notify register offices but not sure about this.

*waves to Asa, long time no see*

[maggie_4_7]

I think it is possible under some circunstances i.e

Grandparents too old to legitimise birth without raising suspicions or not around anyway

A married sister not available to do it

Reason why the birth mother shouldn't or couldn't might have been scrutinised more by society which the family didn't want and how the baby was conceived and who the father wasBut having said all that would think unlikely

[Nell]

I don't think at the time you are talking about anyone would have worries about that kind of thing. There was no Social Services at that date and I doubt if registrars would scrutinise "mothers" to see if they were the right age.

Why are you in doubt about who the mother was?

[Punchs Mum]

I suppose both myself and 'cousin' are finding it hard to beleive, that's all!

My cousin, daughter of the illegitimate daughter, is finding it hard to accept! I think to be honest, she has more doubts than I have. Especially as it now alters her family line as she doesn't know who her real Grandfather is!! The person she thought was her Grandfather is now her G.Grandfather and so on.

She lives in Canada and I have been doing most of the research on our family. Looking back through the family photo album, there are lots of photos of my mother and her half sister together as there was only 6 years between them. I don't think anyone in the family knew of the circumstances of the birth and if they did, no one ever said. In fact, I don't think even the daughter knew of her birth circumstances. It seems that full birth cert. then for poorer off families were a 'no no' and most of them seemed to have the 'shorter' cheaper version with bare details on. If my mothers half-sister knew anything, she never ever let on.

Thank you all for your opinions. I am now more inclined to think that it was indeed my Grandmothers child by birth but brought up by her parents, who incidently, had a child prior to their marriage!! They probably knew just how she felt and bore no malice!

Lesley

[Merry]

The reason I ask is because the daughter of the illegitimate baby and I have been looking at photos and are amazed at the strong likeness between the 16year old sister and illegitimate baby.



Surely a lot of people look more like a sibling of their parent than like their parent? Maybe if you had photos of a lot more of the ancestors of these people you would see the same resemblence further in other mutual ancestors.

I look like my aunt. She and I both look like my grandmother, but my mum looks like my grandfather and not so much like me.

I think it's unlikely this child belongs to anyone other than the person who registered it as hers.

[Merry]

Sorry Lesley, I was slow posting, so we cross posted. I think you are right and your Canadian relative is just getting her head round this surprise!

[Nell]

I agree - family resemblances aren't necessarily logical osr a guide to parents! I suspect your friend is shocked because what she's believed all this time has turned out not to be true - which is very unsettling.

[Punchs Mum]

Yes, Merry, I agree with you.

I think she is finding it hard to beleive. Although I also agree with her that her mother looks more like her Aunt than her mother! (if you follow me!)

Thanks for your thoughts on this.


Nell, Yes, she is very unsettled and I don't think she wants to beleive it. That why I thought I would post on here for opinions from you experts!

Thanks to everyone for your opinions on this.

Lesley

[maggie_4_7]

I don't think at the time you are talking about anyone would have worries about that kind of thing. There was no Social Services at that date and I doubt if registrars would scrutinise "mothers" to see if they were the right age.

Why are you in doubt about who the mother was?

I wasn't thinking of the registrar but the neighbours when I said society. I was thinking more about the gossip mongers than any organised thing. I know social services didn't exist then :rolleyes:

[Nell]

Well there might have been gossip. But that's a far cry from someone actually taking action about it.

[maggie_4_7]

I have also found out that the sister who we suspect may be the mother spent 60 years of her life in a Mental Institution and died as recently as 1991!! She apparently had schizophrenia. Very sad as these days it can be treated.

Lesley

It might be that you should follow this line of enquiry and find out where and when she was institutionlised and what for. Maybe get try to get some information.

That might then put some perspective on who the mother was. It's possible that putting these jigsaw pieces together might give you more clues and evidence that she wasn't the mother and her sister who registered the baby is.

[Nell]

Schizophrenia can be treated these days but it is still a ghastly disease and many people with it still have to be in institutions. I knew a boy in the 1970s who had this and killed himself by jumping out of a window, saying the voices were telling him to do it. A terrible shock as he was such a fun-loving chap prior to getting this disease.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Lesley,
I know of cases where adopted children look more like their parents than their natural children.
Your cousin will accept in time I'm sure, that the family did what they thought best under difficult circumstances. The choice could have been far worse and she wouldn't be around to know about it. Tell her that you come from strong stock to make such a selfsacrificing choice. Just keep on being there for her. Julie

[Punchs Mum]

Maggie,

I have already followed that line of inquiry but as you know, there is a 100 year rule on her medical history.

Winchester Records office were very good and did their best but the results I got were unconclusive apart from the fact I was able to get her death cert. and it was from there that I found the chronic schizophenia. I am supposing this is the reason she was admitted to the Mental Hospital. I may be wrong. The other cause of death was Bronchopneumonia and Senile Demantia. She was 97 when she died. Unbelievable really.

The only other good thing that I was able to get from Winchester was the name of the undertaker that dealt with the Funeral and from there I was able to contact the Funeral Director and he also was very helpful providing details of the funeral and the fact that she was cremated came from him.

All very sad. It would appear that she was never talked about although I can vaguely remember visiting her when I was a child in the '40's. it was if she never existed in the years following.

Lesley

[Nell]

Lesley

Sadly that's how mental illness was perceived - all those mental institutions placed out in the countryside so they wouldn't scare anyone, only served to make the stigma worse.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Nell,
Unfortunately it has come full circle and there are some sad and lonely people out there now with mental health problems that have a lesser quality of life because no one supports them. A friend has a son with schizophrenia and when he takes his medicine he has a happy life style. The problem is then he thinks he doesn't need it. The folk that are not connected to their families without medication live is a very confused and troubled world. Julie