View Full Version : Problem 1 - Mary Smith's husband
BK6 updated from this thread
I need to know the name of this lady's late husband:
Here name is Mary Smith (!) aged 76, and she is here on line 7:
1851 census:
HO107; Piece: 1751; Folio: 576; Page: 15
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=BDFHO107_1751_1751-1110&fn=Mary&ln=Smith&st=r&ssrc=&pid=4377481
If she is who I think she is, then this is her sister, married to her brother in law (lines 6 and 5 respectively):
1851:
HO107; Piece: 1751; Folio: 614; Page: 21
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=BDFHO107_1751_1751-1183&fn=David&ln=Smith&st=d&ssrc=&pid=4378710
Merry...do you mean David and Elizabeth Smith???
Wouldn't that be her brother and sister in law???
Sorry...I used my Aussie sub and had to search with your index numbers.
kiterunner
21-10-10, 22:13
She's the widow of a tailor in 1861, if that's any help.
kiterunner
21-10-10, 22:25
Grandson William Spalding (age 9 in 1861) could be the son of William Spalding and Emma Smith who got married at St Paul's Bedford 7 Nov 1824? But Emma is 60 in 1861 so maybe a bit old to be William's mother. On the other hand, young William was born in Teddington Middlesex, and old William and Emma have a grandson Charles 7 born Middlesex London, so maybe young William is Mary's great-grandson and just written wrong on the census form.
kiterunner
21-10-10, 22:32
But bother, I can't find Emma's baptism to see what her father's name was! The entry on the 1841 census for the Spaldings is very faint but I think the eldest daughter is called Mary, which is a hopeful sign...?
I'll have to look at this again tomorrow! Thanks for your help :)
I have two Maynard women (probably sisters) marrying two Smiths - probably brothers, in the late 1700s. I never imagined being able to identify them. They were both married by licence and now I'm wondering if knowing their ages and finding out if any info is held re the marriages, I might actually find out who they are! (there's a possible bap for one of them and a gap in the babies the other could slot into!)
I wanted to find out if Mary's husband had the right name and as a lot of the online marriage entries had fathers names I was hoping to trace back from a grandchild, but got overwhelmed by the 1851 girl, Elizabeth whatever-her-name-was. I never got to the other one!
I haven't got back to this yet, but I have emailed Beds RO to ask if they have the marriage licences for the two Maynard to Smith marriages. They do and I can have copies for a fiver! Can anyone tell me what info I can expect? I've only seen one marriage licence and that was from 1917!
kiterunner
22-10-10, 15:35
Presumably it isn't the actual licence, but the allegation and / or bond. You will get the names and parishes and marital statuses of the bride and groom, but presumably you have those already, and if it includes the bond it should give you the name and parish of the bondsman, who might be a relative (although I have one that says John Doe for the bondsman!). It might also give you the occupations of the groom and the bondsman. But if it's only the allegation it might not tell you any more than you have from the marriage.
Margaret in Burton
22-10-10, 15:40
Presumably it isn't the actual licence, but the allegation and / or bond. You will get the names and parishes and marital statuses of the bride and groom, but presumably you have those already, and if it includes the bond it should give you the name and parish of the bondsman, who might be a relative (although I have one that says John Doe for the bondsman!). It might also give you the occupations of the groom and the bondsman. But if it's only the allegation it might not tell you any more than you have from the marriage.
The one I have says John Doe too, it's in 1787.
I asked for licence, bond or allegation and they said: "The licences for both 1795 and 1799 have been received and copies are possible."
kiterunner
22-10-10, 16:05
Ooh, I'd be interested to know if it is the actual licence! As for what it will tell you if it is the actual licence, I don't know, but I guess their names and parishes and where they were supposed to get married.
Well, I'm going to get it and see! Makes the postman's visits a bit more interesting :rolleyes:
I've got my head round the Spalding family now!
But bother, I can't find Emma's baptism to see what her father's name was!
There are various entries (all submitted) with the same date but slightly different place details - of course, I have the benefit of knowing what the father's name ought to be!
Emma Smith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 07 FEB 1801 Howard Chapel, St Paul, Bedford, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: John Smith
Mother: Mary
:D
kiterunner
22-10-10, 19:04
Oh well done, don't know how I missed that one!
Maybe you could save me from suicide and work out how Elizabeth Dennis aged 3 in 1851 is Mary Smith's grandaughter, because I can't work it out!
Mary from Italy
22-10-10, 20:46
The marriage bonds/allegations I have included the spouses' ages and the groom's occupation.
Thanks Mary. I am interested to see what I am actually sent!
kiterunner
22-10-10, 22:14
I had a go at Elizabeth Dennis yesterday but I got nowhere with her and that was why I moved on to the Spaldings, but I'll have another look.
I did find Elizabeth in 1861 but she was a lodger in Luton with people who probably weren't relatives.
kiterunner
22-10-10, 22:24
Oh, and now I remember she wasn't Elizabeth Esther Dennis born 1849, she was probably the Elizabeth Dennis whose birth was registered Jan - Mar 1847, except that would make her 4 on census night, not 3.
kiterunner
22-10-10, 22:31
Okay, so Elizabeth Denis's baptism is on the IGI, 8 Sep 1847, St Paul Bedford, parents Henry Denis and Ellen. Is it possible the Bedford stuff is only on the IGI and not on the pilot site? Maybe that's why I got stuck yesterday!
kiterunner
22-10-10, 22:41
Ah, it is on the pilot site but it keeps changing to "Exact Match only" and I probably didn't notice it had done that!
So... Elizabeth's parents are Henry and Ellen, and their marriage is Henry Denis married Ellen Maria Matthews, daughter of Thomas Matthews, and her baptism says Helen Marie Matthews and her parents are Thomas Matthews and Jane Lightfoot. According to submitted IGI records. No Smith there!
kiterunner
22-10-10, 22:48
Got to go to bed, but according to the 1841 census, Ellen Matthews' mother Jane was born in Ireland! Can't see a connection at all! And Elizabeth Dennis age 3 is with her parents Henry and Ellen on the 1851 census, but she is a scholar born Bedford, so could well be the same Elizabeth in two places.
Maybe it'll make sense in the morning?
Apologies - Whilst I was waiting for you to do it for me :p I came to similar concusions (that was my second or third attempt - never found it so hard to find a Smith!), but I fell asleep on the sofa before I got around to posting anything! I think I'll put the Dennis family on the back burner as maybe something will come to he fore later when I'm not expecting it?!
These two Smith men who were tailors and I think were probably brothers were from Bedford and born around the 1770s, by the look of it. If the two wives are the children of the couple I think, then these ladies had two first cousins (brothers - one of whom was my ggg-grandfather) who married two Smith sisters (one of whom was my ggg-grandmother) and the two Smith sisters were the children of one James Smith, tailor b about 1770. It's so tempting to wonder if there's a connection between all these tailoring Smiths! James Smith was supposed to have been born in Herts though. Disappointingly I don't know where in Herts he was born though, as despite much searching (and everyone else searching too) I have never found him in 1851 and he died in 1859.
kiterunner
23-10-10, 14:05
The other bit of Elizabeth Dennis's tree, which no doubt you've already looked at, is Henry Dennis was christened 13 Aug 1823 Hitchin, Hertfordshire, parents Henry and Elizabeth, and there is a marriage between Henry Dennis and Elizabeth Chapman 7 Jan 1812 at Bedford who could be the parents. But for Elizabeth Chapman to be Mary's daughter, she would have to be a widow by 1812 or she would have to be born before Mary's marriage to John Smith and Mary's maiden name would have to be Chapman.
I think I'll put the Dennis family on the back burner as maybe something will come to the fore later when I'm not expecting it?!
Here's the 'not expecting it' moment......
I was randomly looking at the records in Bedford District for the surname Spalding (likely maiden name for Elizabeth Dennis's mother) and I saw:
Births Mar 1848
SPALDING Elizabeth *nnis Bedford 6 34
The missing letter is definitely a D from the index page :)
ElizabethHerts
01-11-10, 12:46
Apologies - Whilst I was waiting for you to do it for me :p I came to similar concusions (that was my second or third attempt - never found it so hard to find a Smith!), but I fell asleep on the sofa before I got around to posting anything! I think I'll put the Dennis family on the back burner as maybe something will come to he fore later when I'm not expecting it?!
Merry, you are in a bad way!:)
lol Elizabeth! I wondered what the matter with me was :eek::p:D
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