Alfred Tooby c. 1860

[ElizabethHerts]

Alfred Tooby was born c. 1860 in Walworth/Deptford Kent.
He can be found with his mother and siblings on censuses before his marriage.
His mother Mary (or Mary Ann) came from Cambridge. Alfred was the youngest child and I believed him to be the son of Mary and her husband Benjamin Mason Tooby, a butcher in Cambridge.

However, then I found this burial:
Benjamin Mason Tooby
26 May 1858
aged 38 years
St Andrew the Less Cambridge

So it looks as though Alfred's father wasn't Benjamin and that he was illegitimate. I can't find his registration in the indexes under Tooby, nor can I find a baptism.

Can anyone spot anything that I can't?

[Margaret in Burton]

What was his mothers maiden name?

[Margaret in Burton]

Elizabeth

The 1871 census says he was born in Cambridge not Kent

[Merry]

Have you found them in 1861?

[Merry]

I can only find Alfred's sister (half sister?) Lucy, but not the others.

[Margaret in Burton]

I can't find them in 1861 at all

[Margaret in Burton]

I can only find Alfred's sister (half sister?) Lucy, but not the others.

I can't find her. Give us a clue.:D

[Merry]

Oops, sorry!

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=CAMRG9_1022_1024-0815&fn=Lucy&ln=Troby&st=d&ssrc=&pid=16511261

[Margaret in Burton]

Here's the marriage

Benjamin Mason Tooby and Mary Carpenter

Cambridge
1840
Dec qtr
14 / 3

[Jackie H]

Is Alfred's the marriage in 1882 to Eliza Heath in Deptford? If so, its on the Ancestry LMA marriages and it says that his father was Alfred Tooby (deceased) butcher

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_198339-00141&fn=Alfred&ln=Tooby&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3688630

[Merry]

Very deceased??!!

[ElizabethHerts]

Sorry not to have been looking in. I have a stinking cold and have been asleep!

The censuses do vary but I think he was born in Walworth and not Cambridge because the family seem to have left Cambridge.
Benjamin Mason Tooby seems to have got in a spot of bother too!
http://www.blacksheepindex.co.uk/BSI-ToToz.pdf

[ElizabethHerts]

Would someone mind sending me the Ancestry information for his marriage to Eliza Heath? I have an FMP sub but not an Ancestry one at present.

[Margaret in Burton]

Is Alfred's the marriage in 1882 to Eliza Heath in Deptford? If so, its on the Ancestry LMA marriages and it says that his father was Alfred Tooby (deceased) butcher

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_198339-00141&fn=Alfred&ln=Tooby&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3688630

Maybe he just got the name wrong, right occupation.

Can anyone find Benjamin Mason Tooby on any census? I can't.

[Margaret in Burton]

Would someone mind sending me the Ancestry information for his marriage to Eliza Heath? I have an FMP sub but not an Ancestry one at present.

pm your email addy Elizabeth

[ElizabethHerts]

It looks as though he always passed himself off as Benjamin Mason Tooby's son.
Benjamin's father was Christopher, and Alfred used the name of Christopher as the second name for his son George.

Name: George Christopher Tooby
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 28 Jun 1885
Baptism/Christening Place: All Saints, Deptford, Kent, England
Birth Date: 04 Feb 1885
Father's Name: Alfred Tooby:
Mother's Name: Eliza Tooby
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01394-5
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 355637
Reference Number: v 1 p 261
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


Did anyone find any birth registration for Alfred? He's not on FMP or FreeBMD under Tooby. I wonder if Mary didn't bother registering him. I haven't found a christening either.

[ElizabethHerts]

Maybe he just got the name wrong, right occupation.

Can anyone find Benjamin Mason Tooby on any census? I can't.

As Alfred never met his alleged father I suppose it was an easy mistake to make.

This is the Tooby family in 1851:
TOOBY, Benjamin M Head Married M 31 1820 Butcher Chesterton Cambridgeshire
TOOBY, Mary A Wife Married F 30 1821 St Andrew the Less Cambridgeshire
TOOBY, Julia Daughter Unmarried F 5 1846 Scholar Baslow Derbyshire
TOOBY, Mary A Daughter Unmarried F 3 1848 Scholar St Benedict Cambridgeshire
TOOBY, Albert Son Unmarried M 1 1850 St Benedict Cambridgeshire
PARMENTER, Mary A Servant Unmarried F 18 1833 Genel Servant Linton Cambridgeshire

RG number: HO107 Piece: 1760 Folio: 419 Page: 13

Address:
39, Hyde Park Corner, Saint Benedict, Cambridge

[Margaret in Burton]

Sent you an email Elizabeth

also found an 1850 Slaters Directory for Benjamin. Same address as you list for the 1851 census

[Olde Crone]

There is a birth for an Alfred Tooby in 1860, but the district is Derby.

I don't have a sub to Ancestry to see if he is on the 1861 in Derby, to eliminate him.

OC

[Margaret in Burton]

1851 for ref

Ancestry have them as Tooley

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=CAMHO107_1760_1760-0786&fn=Benjamin+M&ln=Tooley&st=r&ssrc=&pid=4538254

[Margaret in Burton]

There is a birth for an Alfred Tooby in 1860, but the district is Derby.

I don't have a sub to Ancestry to see if he is on the 1861 in Derby, to eliminate him.

OC

He is OC, I saw that one

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks for the e-mail, Marg. It's gratefully received.

OC, I think the one in Derby is on other censuses in Derby, unfortunately.

[Merry]

There is a birth for an Alfred Tooby in 1860, but the district is Derby.

I don't have a sub to Ancestry to see if he is on the 1861 in Derby, to eliminate him.

OC

I saw that too OC. He can be eliminated - I saw him with his parents in '61or '71 (I've forgotten!)

[ElizabethHerts]

For the record, I have seven children for Benjamin and Mary Ann:
Edward Cox Dec 1841
Julia Sep 1845
Mary Ann Dec 1847
Albert Dec 1849
Lucy Dec 1852
Jessica Susannah Sep 1855
and
Alfred 1860/1861

I have also, tantalisingly, found an earlier Benjamin Mason Tooby!!
Norfolk
Place East Dereham Church St Nicholas
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth 20 Jan 1806
BaptismDate * Jan 1806
Forename Benjamin Mason
Sex M
FatherForename Edward Cox
MotherForename Rachael
FatherSurname TOOBY
MotherSurname BANE
Abode
FatherOccupation Notes

From FreeReg. I haven't tied them in yet but the Edward Cox must mean they are closely connected.

[Margaret in Burton]

what about this one? Alfred Tooley

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=alfred&f0=tool*&sx=&f8=&rg_f7__date=&rs_f7__date=0&f5=&f6=&f4=&f3=&f2=&gskw=&prox=1&db=freebmdbirth&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=32&h=55780063&recoff=1+2

No image available on Ancestry

June qtr 1861
Pancras
1b 134

[Jackie H]

I presume these are the parents in 1841. HO107 Piece 85, Book 12, St Andrew The Less, Cambridgeshire, Folio 3, Page 1

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=CAMHO107_85_86-0057&fn=Benjamin+Mason&ln=Sooby&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3805863

Ancestry has transcribed them as Sooby. Benjamin is a clerk aged 21 and Mary is 20

[ElizabethHerts]

Just found this:

http://www.norfolkancestors.org/tracing/placebirthlist.php?pageNum_searchplacebirth=33&totalRows_searchplacebirth=365&locplacbirth=

"Edward Cox Tooby not known - 1760 Edward Cox Tooby is buried in St Nicholas Churchyard. He was Supervisor of Excise. His wife was Rachel (Bane) We do not know where he was born but Rachel continued to live in East Dereham with her son Edward Reginald until her death 1834"

Another Supervisor of Excise - which was the profession of Christopher Tooby. His son??

[Margaret in Burton]

can't get the image to load on FMP either

[ElizabethHerts]

I presume these are the parents in 1841. HO107 Piece 85, Book 12, St Andrew The Less, Cambridgeshire, Folio 3, Page 1

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=CAMHO107_85_86-0057&fn=Benjamin+Mason&ln=Sooby&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3805863

Ancestry has transcribed them as Sooby. Benjamin is a clerk aged 21 and Mary is 20

Jackie, that's them! FMP has transcribed them as Gorby!!

Here's the marriage:
Groom's Name: Benjamin Mason Tooby
Bride's Name: Mary Carpenter
Marriage Date: 09 Nov 1840
Marriage Place: St Andrew, Cambridge, Cambridge, England
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01527-3
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1818375
Reference Number: P #426
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973

[Margaret in Burton]

Managed to get the image of that Alfred Tooley birth to load on FreeBMD, definitely indexed as Tooley.

[Margaret in Burton]

Right I'm off to bed now.

[ElizabethHerts]

Managed to get the image of that Alfred Tooley birth to load on FreeBMD, definitely indexed as Tooley.

Thanks, Marg. I'll bear that one in mind. I would expect him to be registered south of the river, Greenwich way, probably. I don't think mum bothered.:d

[ElizabethHerts]

Right I'm off to bed now.

Night, Marg. I hope it's a good one for you.

[ElizabethHerts]

Edward Cox Tooby left a will in 1834.

http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/Dserve/dserve.exe?dsqServer=128.60.0.31&dsqIni=dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=0&dsqSearch=((text)='Tooby')

[ElizabethHerts]

I'm off to bed now.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[ElizabethHerts]

I've been on 19th Century British Library Newspapers and it appears that Benjamin Mason Tooby went bankrupt shortly before his death.

His death certificate might be interesting.

[Margaret in Burton]

I've been on 19th Century British Library Newspapers and it appears that Benjamin Mason Tooby went bankrupt shortly before his death.

His death certificate might be interesting.

Yes, I wonder if he took his own life because of it.

[Phoenix]

I'd be prepared to bet that we can't find them in 1861 because they were already in the Greenwich area - in one of those missing census pieces.
I note that Julia married in 1863 - I wonder if Alfred was her child, rather than Mary's?

[ElizabethHerts]

As Alfred tends to say he was born in Walford I think they probably left Cambridge soon after Benjamin's death.

[Phoenix]

Hmm

There's a Mary Tooby marriage in Cambridge in 1859. Who she?

[ElizabethHerts]

Hmm

There's a Mary Tooby marriage in Cambridge in 1859. Who she?

Interesting. There were other Toobys there. I'll investigate.

[ElizabethHerts]

Hmm

There's a Mary Tooby marriage in Cambridge in 1859. Who she?

I'm returning to this after an absence - look what I found!

Day: 28
Month: Feb
Year: 1859
Groom forename: John Henry
Groom surname: MASTERS
Groom's residence: of East Rd
Groom's condition: widr
Groom's occupation: milkman
Groom's age:
Groom's father's forename: Joseph
Groom's father's surname:
Groom's father's occupation: cook dec'd
Bride forename: Mary
Bride surname: TOOBY
Bride's residence: of East Rd
Bride's condition: wid
Bride's occupation:
Bride's age:
Bride's father's forename: George
Bride's father's surname: CARPENTER
Bride's father's occupation: butcher
By Licence: by lic
Place: Cambridge, St Andrew the Less
County: Cambridgeshire,England
Witness 1 forename: John Barton
Witness 1 surname: JULER
Witness 2 forename: Julia
Witness 2 surname: JULER

The JULER witnesses are Julia, who was Benjamin Mason Tooby's sister, and her husband, John Barton Juler!


Question: Why does she call herself Mary Tooby on later censuses?

[ElizabethHerts]

This is John Henry Masters in 1851:

1851 Census
MASTERS, John Henry
CAMBRIDGE, Cambridgeshire
HO107 piece 1760 folio 129 page 2

1851 census - household transcription
MASTERS, John Henry
Address: 13, East Road, Saint Andrew The Less, Cambridge

MASTERS, John Henry H Of Family Married M 25 1826 Milkman St Clements Cambridgeshire
MASTERS, Ann Wife Married F 26 1825 St Peters Cambridgeshire
MASTERS, Jane Ann Daughter F 0 (11 MOS) 1851 St Peters Cambridgeshire