View Full Version : Wilhelmina Coralie Versigny FFMM
Sue at the seaside
17-09-10, 14:13
Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Wilhelmina Coralie, or Coralie Wilhelmina, or Coraly, or possibly Minie, sometimes Adrienne, Surnames are Versigny, Logsdon and Scriven
I think she has signed as witness at 2 of her children's marriages lovely handwriting but illegible to me, she has signed in a French looking name, suggesting that she never actually married and was using her maiden name on a legal document, but used slightly different names on both. When I've worked out how to post a link to them I'll add them here.
Date and place of birth
abt 1935 Paris France
Names of parents
Napoleon Versigny and Marie Adrienne Deseaux
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
No idea, ]
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
lived as the wife of James Logsdon, first child born 1855, and also lived as wife of William Scriven from about 1881. No marriages found.
Occupation(s) - if any
None listed
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on.
1841- Not in the country
1849- Arrived in London with her father
1851-
1861- 25 Lambeth St, Whitechapel, Middlesex
1871- 58 Quaker St, Christchurch Spitalfields, London
1881- 63 Victoria Street, West Ham, Essex
1891- 25 Regents Row, Shoreditch, London
1901- 1 Whitney Rd, Leyton, Essex
1911- 14 Amberley Road, Leyton, Essex
1917- 29 Darnley Road, Hackney (Death cert)
Date, place and cause of death
22nd April 1917 Hackney Infirmary, Broken thigh from accidental fall at home. Inquest held 25th April 1917
Date and place of burial / cremation.
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Memorial inscription - if any
This lady was a real puzzle to me, thank you for all the help/inspiration recieved
Sue at the seaside
17-09-10, 18:23
I cant get on with posting links and can't manage photobucket!!! so if anyone feels they could have a look at her signature for me the 2 weddings where she signed the register as a witness are listed below
Napoleon James Logsdon to Elizabeth Webb 1875
and
Annie Coraly Logsdon to Alfred Joseph Norton in 1877
Thanks for at least reading this.
Sue
kiterunner
17-09-10, 18:43
The witness's name on Napoleon's marriage cert looks like Wilhelmina Coralie Versigny De Vere, and the witness's name on Annie's marriage cert is Coraly Adrienne Versigny Logsdon. The word Versigny looks identical on the two signatures but Coralie is spelt differently!
Sue at the seaside
18-09-10, 09:27
Thanks for looking at that Kite, my OH thought it looked like De Vere, couldn't get that first name! The spelling of Coralie is odd, I feel she is must be an educated person to write with such a hand, (That's probably the French education system for you!) So not being consistent with the spelling of her own name seems strange! And then the progression to using a double barrelled name to incorporate her OHs. If only we could get into their minds!
Just had another look at this, I had assumed both signatures were the same person, but the "Adrienne" bit would indicate otherwise, there is another daughter Ellen Adrienne, perhaps it is her that is witness, but she is only 13ish so unlikely.
I think there is a lot more to this family than meets the eye
kiterunner
18-09-10, 15:52
The word Versigny is written identically in the two witness signatures, so I'm sure they must be written by the same person.
Sue at the seaside
18-09-10, 21:56
I agree with you Kite, I've printed the signatures to check. I think there is more to this woman than meets the eye! why on earth does an "educated" woman, change her name at the drop of a hat! I can understand verbal records being corrupted, but to change your name on your children's marriage records seems very odd!
OK.................this bird has to be related to the Ariels.......lol. Tries to confuse everyone...lol
I put a search in the 1861 census for Coralie born France. I got one hit. She is Coralie OWEN wife of George OWEN.
So I look for the marriage to see Coralie's maiden name......
FreeBMD has a marriage of George OWEN and Coralie Euphrosyne V MONTGOMERY in 1869???? So maybe not actually married in 1861.....lol
Also on the same page (but at a different area...lol) is a Wilhelmina Jaroha RUVSSENAERS.
Don't think they fit with yours.....but thought I'd add them for a laugh......(I'm gaining a very sick sense of humour).
Do you have the birth certs of any of her children? I'm just wondering what variation was given there?!
Name: James Logsdon
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 63
District: St George in The East
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 273
Is this James? Seems a little too old....... I guess you can't find either of them in 1881? Have you found an alternative person who may belong to this death reg?
Langley Vale Sue
19-09-10, 15:13
It's strange because there is a public tree on Ancestry which has a
Wilhelmina C. Logsdon b 23 April 1913 in Indiana with a father James P Logsdon (1884-1971), mother Cora Francis Mattingly. I know the dates (and place ;) )are wrong, but any connection?
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/4045275/person/-1658239852
Do you know whether Ellen Adrienne Logsdon married Robert Starling or John Wright and have you found them in 1891?
Sue at the seaside
19-09-10, 21:41
Do you know whether Ellen Adrienne Logsdon married Robert Starling or John Wright and have you found them in 1891?
I think she married John Wright, but only because of the 1891 census.
Sorry not to have replied to all these, I've been out out all day.
Back on track tomorrow!
Sue at the seaside
19-09-10, 21:43
Name: James Logsdon
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 63
District: St George in The East
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 273
Is this James? Seems a little too old....... I guess you can't find either of them in 1881? Have you found an alternative person who may belong to this death reg?
This is James her "husband" You are quite right, not been able to find any in 1881
There's a bap at Christ Church Spitalfields 27th Oct 1878 for Minie Logsdon dau of James (polisher) and Minie. Who on earth is this? The address given (50 Hanbury St) happens to be empty in 1881!
kiterunner
19-09-10, 22:16
There is a birth registration for Minnie Logsden Jan-Mar 1877 Bethnal Green, likely to be the same person as in that baptism.
Sue at the seaside
19-09-10, 22:19
I can't work out who she is!! I'm sure it must be one of theirs! Wilhelmina's daughter Wilhelmina c 1857 was known as Minnie through most of her life, but lived, so seems unlikely to have had another child with the same name.
Hanbury St is closely linked with daughter Wilhelmina's husband's family, they lived and died there and got married from there (from the house that one of Jack the ripper's victims was found!- a few years before that event though) so it is quite possible that they lived there.
For years I have thought this ladies surname was Corralie, it is only 3 weeks ago that I realised that I was wrong. The simplest thing in the world would be to order daughter Wilhelmina's, why didn't I think of this earlier. Will order in the morning.
There is a birth registration for Minnie Logsden Jan-Mar 1877 Bethnal Green, likely to be the same person as in that baptism.
No sign of a marriage or death for that Minnie. Maybe after James died his widow returned to France with Minnie (if she is their child).
Sue at the seaside
20-09-10, 15:55
No sign of a marriage or death for that Minnie. Maybe after James died his widow returned to France with Minnie (if she is their child).
That could explain why there is no more that I can find for Wilhelmina Coralie, no death and on no more censuses.
Who registered James's death?
Sue at the seaside
20-09-10, 17:38
Who registered James's death?
Good point Merry, I'll order that at the same time as Napoleon's birth
Oh, hang on - I thought you knew it was him! As he is five years older than he should be, should we be looking in case that's not his cert? (don't want you wasting your £9.50!)
Hmmmm, well having looked a bit more now, I have to say I can't find another candidate for that death record, so, unless it was a bad spelling of someone elses surname, it probably is him after all.
Sue at the seaside
23-09-10, 12:02
For all those lovely people who have replied to this thread, I thought I'd add this communication I have been having this week with someone with the same woman in their tree on Ancestry, No answers but interesting!
Hi there, I see you have the Logsdon family in your tree Wilhelmina (1835) and James (1826-1898) Logsdon are in my direct line, as I suspect they are yours. I descend from Wilhelmina Emma Logsdon (1859) I was wondering where you managed to find the parentage of Wilhelmina Coralie, I have puzzled over this for years and expect her baptism was in France. Have you any idea when she came to England? And have you ever found a marriage for her?
Would be interested to hear from you if you have the time
Sue
Hi. Yes it is very difficult and I have hit some real brick walls on this one. I know somewhere in our family tree there is a French ancestor (as a story in the family always has said that one of our ancestors was the Aide to Napoleon, and this line is where I think it comes from).
The 1861 and 1871 Census Records lists Wilhelmina (Wilhelmine) being born in Paris, France and being the wife of James Logsdon and they make her DOB as being 1935/1936.
The only record of birth I can find is the Record for 'Wilhelmine Sidonie de Layve' (6 April 1835).
I have not yet found any marriage fact.
Hope that this helps?
Richard
Hello Richard,
Thanks for your reply. It would be wonderful to have a link to Napoleon, On my Husband's side we have a link to Nelson!
I think we are the same with the 61/71 censuses, that is all I really have. Apart from I think she has signed Napoleon James Logsdon's Marriage record as a witness. And the name there is Wilhelmina Coralie Versigny de Vere. I have just sent for his birth cert in a hope to get her name. This could also indicate that they didn't actually marry. To add to the complication, the same person has signed as a witness to one of her daughter's marriages with different fornames but Versigny Logsdon as the surname. I am convinced the handwriting is the same!
Would you like me to let you know when my cert arrives?
Sue
Hi Sue
Many thanks for some extremely interesting information. I would be most grateful for any information that you have to share with me. I have contacted the International Napoleonic Society to see if they can help with a list of the Aides of Napoleon, thinking that I might be able to trace some information from them. I have not heard anything from them yet but will let you know if anything positive comes from it.
Kind regards
Richard
Sue at the seaside
23-09-10, 21:14
Oh my goodness, what do you make of this 1901 census, Ellen Adrienne Logsdon who married John Wright living with her mother!!! Corralie Servien
b1834 Paris, a British citizen. How many names can one woman use????
Name: Ellen Wright
[Ellen Seriven]
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Coralie Seriven
Gender: Female
Where born: St George in The East, London, England
Civil parish: Leyton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Leyton
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: North Leyton
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Wright 37
Ellen Wright 18
John Wright 15
George Wright 13
Coralie Seriven 67
David Logsdon 21
Alice Logsdon 19
And, she is still around in 1911
LOGSDON, David Head Single M 31 1880 Cabinet Maker London Shoreditch
LOGSDON, George Brother Single M 24 1887 Cabinet Maker London Shoreditch
LOGSDON, John Brother Single M 15 1896 Cabinet Maker London Shoreditch
WRIGHT, Ellen Aunt Married M 46 1865 Cigar Maker London Stratford
SERIVEN, Coralie Grandmother Widow F 76 1835 Private Means France N K Resident
Haven't you found her death reg yet? :rolleyes::p
I think that surname should be SCRIVEN - she's on the 1881 census as Paris born.
*Wonders if she bothered marrying William Scriven?*
Oh I remember now, James Logsdon didn't die until 1884, but she wasn't married to him, so she may have married Wm instead?!!!
In 1891 she is a widow and the mother of Richard Webb! (whoever he is!)
Maybe she is the mother of his wife, Mrs Elizabeth Webb, aged 35 b Shoreditch?
Hmmmm......in 1861 and 1871 they (James and Wilhemina Logsdon)had no daughters called Elizabeth.
Richard Webb, cabinet maker is single in 1881 despite having several over 10 years children in 1891!! (maybe I have the wrong person?)
I think it's time I went and did something else!!!!!!!!
OMG!!
I said in 1891 Coralie was mother to Richard Webb or his wife Elizabeth. Well the children in the house include David Webb aged 10 b Hackney. I went back to 1881 and looked for David b Hackney and he is probably David Logsdon son of Napoleon. :confused::confused::confused::confused: So Coralie was mother to Elizabeth's prev husband??
kiterunner
24-09-10, 16:21
But Elizabeth's name was Webb when she married Napoleon Logsdon in 1875 (head hurts).
kiterunner
24-09-10, 16:22
:confused:Elizabeth's father was Richard Webb.
*Joins Kate in having a hurting head*
Napoleon Logsdon was still alive in 1891. RichardWebb (1891) was a cabinet maker like Napoleon, so was he using an assumed name. Do their ages match? I found a Richard Webb cabinet maker in 1881 whose age was two or three years adrift, but maybe he is a red herring?
*downs Panadol*
*goes to ballet class* lol
kiterunner
24-09-10, 16:45
I don't know how old Elizabeth's father was because I just got his name from her marriage certificate.
Right, one step at a time.....I'm hoping there's just a wierd mistake, but it's easier to write it down.
1881; 2 Hope St Bethnal Green:
Napoleon Logsdon m 25 cabinet maker b St Geo in the East
Elizabeth Logsdon wife m 25 b Shoreditch
Frederick Logsdon son 5 b Spitalfields
Elizabeth Logsdon dau 2 b Hackney
David Logsdon son 1 b Hackney
On the same page is what is presumably Elizabeth Logsdon nee Webb's family, dad Richard 52 furniture packer b Shoreditch and mum Rebecca 50 paper box maker b St George Surrey plus several children aged 22 down to 12. The 22 year old is Richard Webb cabinet maker b Shoreditch, who I thought was Elizabeth's husband on the next census. I doubt she will turn out to be married to her own brother, so here goes.............
1891: 29 Regent Row, Shoreditch
Richard Webb head m 35 cabinet maker b Whitechapel
Elizabeth Webb wife m 35 b Shoreditch
Frederick Webb son 14 cabinet maker's assistant b Shoreditch
Elizabeth Webb dau 12 b Hackney
David Webb son 10 b Hackney
Alice Webb dau 9 ditto
Arthur Webb son 7 ditto
Lilly Webb dau 4 ditto
George son 3 ditto
Eliza dau 1 ditto
Coralie Scriven mother widow 57 b France British Subject
Hooray, in 1901 things are back to normal!
Elizabeth Logsdon is a 46 year old widow and she has Arthur and George with her (as Logsdon) plus another two younger children.
I think probably Elizabeth's brother Richard was living in her house in 1891 and there was some confusion over who the head of house was: Richard or Napoleon?!!
Sue at the seaside
24-09-10, 20:24
Oh my goodness, I came back to this tonight (having been out all day with the parents) hoping someone had glanced at this. Mindblowing! I don't think it's all as confusing as it seems, but I'm going to print all this out to try to get my head round it.
Thank you
I have spent the evening going through all this, and I have to admit you have all got so much more out of this than I ever could. Tomorrow I have to take the parents home (to Essex) so won't be around.
Be back Sunday
Most likely death for Wm Scriven, 'husband' of Coralie (I have to call her that as I have trouble with spelling Whilhelmina!)
Name: William Scriven
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Year of Registration: 1883
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 50
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 5
This is where my thought process went next....I looked for William on earlier censuses to see if he was previously married......couldn't see him easily in 1871, but in 1861 there's a William right age b Surry Southwark but living in Birmingham with wife Caroline. I don't know if that is the right man, but thought I'd look for a death for Caroline, half expecting either not to find one or to find one too late (ie after he was living with Coralie)........but I stopped short with the looking for Caroline death when I saw this one.....
Name: Caroline Williamina R Scriven
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 70
District: Fulham
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 217
That could be William's wife, but if I didn't know that Coralie had lived to 1911 I would be thinking this death was hers!! *another headache!!*
Well, there is a Caroline Scriven in West Ham in 1901, but she is consistently b 1832 and when she married (1859 to Alfred Scriven) had no middle names, so make of that what you will!
Where is Coralie's death? Ellen A Wright died in West Ham by the look of it - I forget the date now (1930s?), but you would think her mother would have died in that area too. The various Logsdon men died in other parts of London by the look of it, so no one moved very far.
Forget that last post as that 1907 death I think is for this lady:
Marriages Sep 1858
McCoy John Greenwich 1d 805
Prindible Ellen Greenwich 1d 805
Sargent Priscilla Greenwich 1d 805
Scriven Edward Greenwich 1d 805 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sutherland Caroline Williamina Rose Greenwich 1d 805 <<<<<<<<<
So, a complete red herring.
I still can't find Wm Scriven in 1871.
Sue at the seaside
25-09-10, 10:47
Just a real quickie as we are on our way to London.
Just got the birth cert for Napoleon James Logsdon b 1855. Mother's name is Coralie Adrienne Wilhelmina Logsdon formerly Versigny. At least that sort of fits with her various signatures on the marriage registers.
Be back tomorrow
Sue
Had you realised that Monsieur Versigny on that Ancestry Alien Arrivals list was recorded as a ship owner (armateur). I feel that could well be him with his daughter Coralie, but as they don't seem to be on the 1851 census that isn't helping much.
Sue at the seaside
26-09-10, 12:34
Had you realised that Monsieur Versigny on that Ancestry Alien Arrivals list was recorded as a ship owner (armateur). I feel that could well be him with his daughter Coralie, but as they don't seem to be on the 1851 census that isn't helping much.
I didn't realise what an armateur was! I had thought it was probably them as well. As you have looked at that page, do you think the people below Monsieur and Mlle Versigny are also Versignys?
Sue at the seaside
26-09-10, 18:14
1891: 29 Regent Row, Shoreditch
Richard Webb head m 35 cabinet maker b Whitechapel
Elizabeth Webb wife m 35 b Shoreditch
Frederick Webb son 14 cabinet maker's assistant b Shoreditch
Elizabeth Webb dau 12 b Hackney
David Webb son 10 b Hackney
Alice Webb dau 9 ditto
Arthur Webb son 7 ditto
Lilly Webb dau 4 ditto
George son 3 ditto
Eliza dau 1 ditto
Coralie Scriven mother widow 57 b France British Subject
I think probably Elizabeth's brother Richard was living in her house in 1891 and there was some confusion over who the head of house was: Richard or Napoleon?!!
It has taken me ages to get my head round this! Think I've got it sorted now, but any ideas where Napoleon was, I can't find him anywhere (I know this is a bit of topic, sorry)
Sue at the seaside
26-09-10, 18:23
Name: Adrienne C Scriven
Death Registration Month/Year: 1917
Age at death (estimated): 82
Registration district: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 517
What do you think of this for a death!!!!???????
Shall I crack open the champagne?
(Think I'll send for the cert! I will also send for her husband's death cert, I'm hoping it wasn't her that registered it as I suspect she had already taken up with William Scriven)
Ooooooh, well done! I never searched with Adrienne, coz I'd forgotten about that name!
I think probably Napoleon was actually in the house and with his sharing the same occ wih Richard and then being roughly the same age (Richard actually has Napoleon's age on that census) I think there was just a huge muck up and the enumerator was completely confused. Maybe it was Coralie who gave the details??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Sue at the seaside
02-10-10, 11:11
Just to add, The death cert has arrived, promoting more excitement!!!! I've added the main info at the beginning of the thread. It states she is the widow of William Scriven (shame she didn't marry him!!!). The address given for her is where so many of my family lived, My Grandfather, (her Grandson, I assume she was living with his family) My Grandmother (before she married) with her half sister (my great aunt) and her husband (before they married!). I'm told it was a large tenement building, which was unfortunately bombed in WWII, I've seen the green patch left in it's place!
So now, how do I looking for an inquest?
kiterunner
02-10-10, 11:16
Probably best to go and look at the local paper for that area for that date (if it's an evening paper) and the next few days after.
Sue at the seaside
05-12-10, 20:09
Just a little update- someone else has made contact via ancestry and has all the info we managed to find! but also has a very readable document from the port of London Authority say that Napoleon Versigny arrived with his daughter. An extremely good likely hood that this is our family bearing in mind the family link to Napoleon, which my new contact has confimed. Just need to find her in 1851 now and her mother.
Just need to find her in 1851 now and her mother.
Found her yet? :D
Sue at the seaside
07-12-10, 11:15
Still no luck with the 1851, but after you lot looking as well I think it's worth giving up on that for a few more years!
But her mother............ why did Wilhelmina sign herself as Versigny De Vere on one occasion????? Could that be the clue????
Just a little update- someone else has made contact via ancestry and has all the info we managed to find! but also has a very readable document from the port of London Authority say that Napoleon Versigny arrived with his daughter. An extremely good likely hood that this is our family bearing in mind the family link to Napoleon, which my new contact has confimed. Just need to find her in 1851 now and her mother.
So that doc is the same date as the other one found previously that didn't give Monsieur Versigny's first name.
Sue at the seaside
07-12-10, 20:48
Yes Merry, 12th Oct 1849. When I looked on Ancestry yesterday there seems to be 2 entries now, but as I don't have worldwide I can't check them out. But I think that's them. one as M. Versigny and the other Napoleon Versigny.
My new contact found this thread via Google, and lives in the same county as us! small world.
Lorna in the sticks
08-12-10, 07:27
Morning Sue & Merry
Forgive any errors as I am new to this site, I was given this information recently but try as I might even after enrolling I cant seem to get anywhere, have you seen this before I believe it is a free site?.
http://www.oise.fr/Recensements_de_population.930.0.html
Firstly as Bill pointed out the censuses are in French! For those who don't speak or read French the Google Toolbar has a translate button.
If not these are the steps to follow:
1. On the orange balloon thing in the top right hand corner there is Je M'inscris (register)
Click on that - and enter your details
vous etes Parcticulier, Association, Elu
prenom - first name
nom - surname
e-mail - err e-mail :>)
Mot de passe (password)
Confirmer le mot de passe - confirm password
annuler (cancel)
creer mon compte (create my account) confirmation will be sent to your email address which you have to confirm
once you've done that then the next time you visit you only have to put your e-mail address in and password
On the right hand side there is a lime green button - services cuturel
click on Consulter les archives departementales (Consult departmental archives)
on the right again there is an orange box
Etat Civil (baptisms marriages burials)
Sont consultables en ligne les actes de baptêmes, mariages et sépultures (BMS) des registres paroissiaux (jusqu’en 1792), les actes de naissances, mariages et décès (NMD) des registres d’état civil de la période 1792-1902 (limite variable selon la composition des registres), ainsi que les tables décennales (TD) de la période 1803-1902.
Les registres d’état civil de la période 1903-1934, dont les références figurent dans la base, ne seront pas numérisés dans l’immédiat. Ils ne peuvent être consultés que dans notre salle de lecture à Beauvais. Ils ne pourraient, en tout état de cause, être mis en ligne sur Internet en vertu d’une recommandation de la Commission Nationale de l’Informatique et des Libertés (CNIL).
Are available online acts of baptisms, marriages and burials (BMS) parish registers ( until 1792) , acts of births, marriages and deaths (NMD) Vital records of the period 1792-1902 (the limit varies depending on the composition of the registers) , and the decennial tables (TD) for the period 1803-1902 .
Vital Records of the period 1903-1934 , the references contained in the database , will not be scanned immediately . They can be viewed in our reading room at Beauvais . They would not, in any event , be posted on the Internet under a recommendation from the Commission Nationale Informatique et Libertés ( CNIL).
To access documents, choose a town from the dropdown menu , then click " Search " . In the results grid that appears , select the row corresponding to the time-span of interest.
Pour accéder aux actes, choisissez une commune dans le menu déroulant puis cliquez sur « Rechercher ». Dans la grille de résultats qui s’affiche, sélectionnez la ligne correspondant à la tranche chronologique qui vous intéresse.
Recensements de population (census)
Listes nominatives des habitants des communes de l’Oise établies tous les cinq ans de 1831 à 1931 (pour certaines communes des listes existent également pour 1806, 1820 et 1826).
Choisissez une commune dans le menu déroulant et, éventuellement, une année. Cliquez ensuite sur Rechercher. Dans la grille de résultats qui s’affiche, sélectionnez la ligne correspondant au recensement qui vous intéresse de façon à ouvrir la fenêtre de visualisation. Les listes nominatives sont établies topographiquement, c'est-à-dire rue par rue.Listes nominatives des habitants des communes de l’Oise établies tous les cinq ans de 1831 à 1931 (pour certaines communes des listes existent également pour 1806, 1820 et 1826).
Lists of names of residents of municipalities of the Oise compiled every five years from 1831 to 1931 ( for some common lists also exist for 1806 , 1820 and 1826) .
Choose a municipality in the dropdown menu and , possibly, annually. Then click Search. In the results grid that appears, select the row you are interested in the census so as to open the preview window . The lists of names are drawn geographically , that is to say, street by street.
Bye for now Lorna
Sue at the seaside
08-12-10, 11:46
Welcome to the site Lorna, Haven't worked out what sort of cousins we are, but we are of some sort!
That last post will take a bit of getting my head around! perhaps I'll leave that bit to you.
EDIT
Just tried to calculate our relationship, think we are 3rd cousins!
tenterfieldjulie
08-12-10, 19:43
Hi Lorna, Welcome. Many thanks for that information re using the French site. All that information could come in very handy in the future. Julie (also for the sticks)
Hello Lorna.. Welcome to GF.
Thanks for that info. I have someone who married in Paris in 1848 but we've never found her death. Unfortunately, I have been busy in the garden all day and out tonight, so my brain isn't great.
Maybe Julie can work it out for me....lol
Mary from Italy
09-12-10, 11:56
Libby, it looks as this site only covers the Oise district, not the Paris district.
Libby, it looks as this site only covers the Oise district, not the Paris district.
But we don't know exactly where she died............lol
I can't even find when her husband died..
tenterfieldjulie
10-12-10, 06:16
Hello Lorna.. Welcome to GF.
Maybe Julie can work it out for me....lol
Lorna - Beware - Libby's sense of humour is laughable lol
Hi everyone,i'm yet another of Coralie's relatives to rear their ugly head!I thought Id post here a version of the message i sent Sue,just to see if anyone knows anything anyone of it...enjoy(if it makes any sense!!)
My Nan told me that her g g grandmother was French and called Coralie Versigny.She was told that she was the daughter of someone in the French aristocracy connected in someway to the navy.This was backed up by a couple of oil paintings that we had in the family but which unfortunately have now been lost.One was of someone taken to be Coralie's father and showed him in uniform,hat and a sash.The other was of Coralie's mum.My mum found them when exploring her uncle's fish and chip shop,he kept them in a cupboard with the frying oil,which shows the regard they had for the "frenchies" as they termed them!!
According to the story,Coralie came to England to improve her English, fell in love,and was then disowned by her French family for marrying below her.Was Coralie married only once,or not even at all?! I am related to Coralie through her relationship with William Scriven.
According to my Nan they had three kids,Leopold(Uncle Leo),Wilhelmina (Aunty Minnie) and Ellen.Ellen married John Wright,they had a son also called John,who moved from London to Margate and married someone called Louisa.they had 4children,John,George,Charles and Ellen.Ellen is my Nan.
As my Nan understood it,Coralie lived in London and brought her family up,until her daughter Ellen saw an advert in the News of the World for Coralie Versigny.The advert was to let Coralie know her dad had died and left her money(though this had been eaten into by the cost of adverts)Apparently the adverts were placed by Coralie's uncle,a lawyer.Coralie and William ran a pub,the Reindeer. This I do know to be true,as I emailed an association which keeps records of pubs,they confirmed William to be the landlord in about 1871 as I remember it.Unfortunately I've since (stupidly) changed email accounts,so I no longer have the email. My Nan wasnt quite old enough to have met Coralie,but her brother,John,who was born in 1909,did meet her. He remembered an eccentric old lady,with a mass of auburn hair.Apparently she loved animals,(more than people according to my Nan's gran!) and kept an owl in the corner of her room!
Coralie was supposed to have been brought up in a Chateau in either Le Havre or Rouen and her mother was supposed,upon her death,to have left a park in her name in the town.This is all I know about Coralie, but I'd love to find out more.For a long time I actually thought her name wasnt even Versigny and that the family had something to do with the Chateau Versigny,I'm glad I finally know her surname!!
As Ive told Sue,I know lots of old stories about Coralie and very little in terms of actual dates and certificates,so the more i can find(and be told)the better.thanks
Hi stueyfass, Have you read all the posts on this thread? I think some of your questions might be answered there.
What a shame the paintings went missing :(
Lorna in the sticks
16-01-11, 21:28
Hello Stu
I'm yet another relation, Wilhelmina's daughter Annie Norton was my GGG.GM Sue at the seaside is my 3rd cousin her GGG.GM was my GGG.GM sister Minnie and the line I believe you came down was the other daughter Ellen Adrienne, unfortunately I do not have much information as my fathers mother Ellen Rebecca and father William James Freeman died within 3 months of each other in 1919 the only photo I have is of Ellen Rebecca which was in a shoe buckle, as to the red hair my father did tell me that someone had red hair, he had a red moustache and side burns and my son Stuart has the red gene from both sides of the family but only in side burns, he hasn’t grown a moustache yet and its looking like is son Mitchell (7mths) will carry the gene.
This photo is Wlhelmina Coralie's granddaughter Ellen Rebecca my granny
http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/11516872/1/Granny%20Freeman%202?h=b148c2
Bye for now Lorna in the Sticks ps If I've made errors sorry I'm new to this
Lorna in the sticks
17-01-11, 14:46
Thank you everyone would you believe Ive only just found out where to go for my reply's, not that thick really just been extra busy trying to work out the French site (no luck yet) think at the end of the day might be an excuse to go to France for an extended holiday (I wish)
Lorna
thanks for the pic Lorna,i emailed it to my Nan,who knew Minnie.it's all very confusing and difficult to get my head round,it'd be great if it was all written down!it doesnt help that everyone seems to have the same names!!that's even true now,My sisters name is rebecca louise and me and my girlfriend are thinking about including Ellen in the name of our little girl!!(due any day now!!)So you've not had any luck with finding Coralie's mother?i'd really love to find out about the french side,it looks like a bit of a dead end tho.definitely worthy a trip to france......!
it's all very confusing and difficult to get my head round,it'd be great if it was all written down!
Have you got a family tree program to add all the details to?
I have only just started to look at my family tree. I was told that my great great grandmother on my mothers side was French so decided to investigate that first. The name Annie Coralie has come down the family line so it was quite easy to get back to Wilhelmina. Imagine my excitement when I googled the name and found this thread. Wilhelmina is my gg granny and annie is my g granny, she married Alfred Joseph Norton or sometimes Joseph Alfred. She worked as a cigar maker as did her daughter Florence, my nan. Florence married Henry Parker, a print compositer. They had five children, Flossie, John, Annie Coralie, Ellen Alice (my mum) and Joyce. They have all died now so I can't give them the third degree, but Auntie Joyce used to say that gg granny's name was Annie Coralie Versigne Lorraine. On one of the posts someone mentioned that Wilhelmina had red hair. My cousin's daughter had the most beautiful and striking thick titian coloured hair and nobody knew where it had come from. I think I do now! I haven't been able to get back any further than Wilhelmina, but got a bit further with James so would appreciate any help.
tenterfieldjulie
25-01-11, 01:37
Welcome Newby, Haven't you struck gold. :D:D
All this information and lots of living relies too. :d
Such a fascinating family and so wonderful that so many descendants are interested in piecing together the lady with unpronounceable name's :eek:(let alone spell it) story.
Lorna in the sticks
25-01-11, 14:33
Welcome Newby Annie is also my GGranny,my granny was Ellen Rebecca(Nellie)Norton B1883 married William Freeman 1901-3 children William James 1902 -Ellen Rebecca 1906 (my aunt Nellie) & Joseph 1908 (my dad Joe or Joey as my aunt liked to call him),Ellen & William both died in 1919 of TB and granny Annie looked after the 3 children alone the best she could, at 57 years that must have been daunting.
Wilhelmina B1835 Paris France entered London 12 Nov1849 with her father Napoleon on board the Wm Joliffe, we have a record but from there Napoleon & Wilhelmina disappeared, until she reappeared in the 1961 Census with James Logsdon (we can find no marriage cert) having 2 children Napoleon James and Wilhelmina Emma(Minnie),1871 she has 2 more children Wilhelmina Annie and Ellen Adrienne, she appears to have left James to live with a William Scrivens 1881 Census shows her with William (no marriage cert) but by 1883 he died also James died in 1881.(cant find any children with Wm Scrivens.
In 1891 Wilhelmina now calls herself Corile Scrivens, 1901 living with daughter Ellen Logsdon-Wright as Coralie Scrivens, she died in 1917 after falling and breaking her hip.
Sue at the sea side is also a relation, Sue worked out we are 3rd cousins, and we live very near one and other, both of us moving from Surrey to Dorset, me in 1981 and Sue 2001
The lady is certainly elusive Sue and I have reached a dead end at the moment but will keep on looking.
James Logsdon parents James Logsdon & Hannah Kent from Hoddesdon Hertfordshire M 23 Jan 1823.
Have a look at Sue at the Seaside site she has lots of info there on the Logsdons.
This will give you some to get on with, keep in touch we welcome any new leads
Best wishes
Lorna in the Sticks
Hi Lorna, Thanks for your response and information. I just typed this up once pressed a random key and lost it. Oh well I will try again. Your granny Ellen Rebecca was sister to my granny Florence Marie. Sue reckons that makes us second cousins. Florence was born in 1905. Looking at the 1911 census there were 4 children and sadly 7 that died. They were living at 3 Apple Square. At the same time my granny Florence and her husband Henry Parker were living at no1 Sweet Apple Square. They subseqently moved to Ridly Road in Hackney, which is where I remember them living. Annie and Florence both worked as cigar makers. Have you managed to do any research on the Norton family yet? I have only traced back to 1881 soon after Annie and Joseph got married. it doesn't help that Joseph his first and second names,, sometimes he is Alfred and I haven't yet worked out his birth name. Still that is just a matter of time. I will keep plugging away at Wilhelmena, it is intriguing, and I wan't to find out as much as possible.
I live further down the country than you,Cornwall. I will post any more information I find.
Kind regards
Carol
Hi Julie, I notice you were looking for leads in Cornwall. I live in Cornwall. I don't get a lot of free time so can't promise anything, but feel free to ask and I will see if I can help. I spent a couple of months in Australia a few years ago with a friend who lives in Adelaide. We visited NSW, Sydney, Windsor, Canberra, got lost in Canberra, Manly, the Blue Mountains, Colo, Kuruah, and I'm not sure if this is in NSW, Jervis Bay. Went up to Northern territory too. Wonderful time, lovely country.
I will check the posts.
Regards
Carol
Lorna in the sticks
29-01-11, 17:15
Hi Carol
Well I never 2nd cousins, I will have to get all my other cousins involved, I’ve been sending them bits and piece’s hoping that one of them will come up with some fresh info.
I have lot, not sure if I can send through this link but I will try, the Freeman & Blamey side of my family came from Devon/Cornwall.
You will find in the documents 2 names similar Annie Elizabeth and Annie Coralie Norton
They were children of Margaret Barfield-Norton & Annie C Norton (Annie C’s mother in-law) well that’s what it looks like see what you think.
Oh I know all about random keys after doing that a few times I now type all in word 1st then copy across, I also keep the word doc in the Norton file so I don’t double up on the info (well I try).
Hope I have been able to help
Bye for now
Lorna
Copy & paste the link below into your browser all the jpg files will be revealed (no charge)
http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/11516872/1/Norton?h=251dde
I do have more info going back into 1700's also sorry if you have received confusing e mails I have button trouble doh
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