George Savage. 25th November, 1859 died November 1882

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I have made progress in my quest on information re my great uncle, George Savage, born Helsby ,Cheshire,England. :).

As I may have previously mentioned, George is seen on the 1861 and 1871 census records, but not the 1881 census.

Thanks to a New Zealand Rootchat member, I now have George's death certificate plus register number which identifies place of internment.

I am really stuck now as to why my great uncle undertook this perilous journey to New Zealand?

Did George travel having been employed by Mr Edward Francis Tole..estate agent of ? Orakua, North Island.

Coming from a farming family, this was possibly the 'calling' that took my great uncle so far from home.

Sadly, George was found drowned...aged 24 yrs. attempting to cross the Pinui River which was in HIGH flood..His reason was to retrieve a horse he had sold to a man, George had heard, was about to imprisoned. Horses were an extremely valuable commodity.

Does anyone know how I can contact the Coroners archivist? George had a pocket book, like his father, kept a diary.(this was a strong family trait, the majority of the Savage family I know of, also kept journals.) It is just possible,the 'book' may be in the N.Zealand archives, or, returned to his father, David Savage of Helsby.

I have e-mailed the Records Office at Chester on the off chance (??) the book just might be in their archives..:) One never knows?

Many thanks for any assistance you might be able to offer.

Most sincerely ;)

[HarrysMum]

When did he die???

[HarrysMum]

This looks like him, but you may it..

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=GRA18821122.2.8.15&srpos=4&e=-------10--1----2%22george+savage%22--

[HarrysMum]

Did George have rellies over there.....or marry? There is a birth notice for a child with father George Savage but it's 1908.

[HarrysMum]

Looks like Edward Tole was into goldmining.

Here is where I'm looking.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=p&p=home&e=-------10--1----2%22edward+tole%22--

[samesizedfeet]

This mentions the "native" who was accused of killling him : http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=WH18821115.2.14&srpos=10&e=01-01-1882-31-12-1883--10--1-byDA---2%22george+savage%22--

[HarrysMum]

This mentions the "native" who was accused of killling him : http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=WH18821115.2.14&srpos=10&e=01-01-1882-31-12-1883--10--1-byDA---2%22george+savage%22--



Then the post mortem discounts it.....

[KiwiChris]

This is the website for the New Zeland Archives.
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/

There is nothing there that looks obviously like him, but there is more in the archives than appears on the site.

If there was a coroners inquest that will be held at the archives and may not necessarily appear online. Is there any mention of a coroners inquest on the death certificate?

The archives also hold extensive passenger lists especially covering assisted passages.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shipstonz/
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/

There may be something useful on the above sites.

[HarrysMum]

Christine......the Grey River Argus says there was an inquest.

That's where it says death was by drowning not natives....

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Profound apologies for being so long in posting. our daughter has been very ill since September, is just beginning to feel :).

George Savage..was found drowned on the banks of the Pinui River on 20th November 1882. His body having been found face down for some days.

Through' PapersPast' I now have a pretty comprehensive account of the events leading to my great uncles sad death. I also have a copy of his death certificate which will be placed alongside his father, David's Last Will & Testament in the Records Office at Chester,Cheshire,England. In a way, re-united after 119 years.

My journey now is to fill in the background to George in N.Z. I know he had been in N.Z for just 4 years, so,what ship did he sail on,what form of passage did George have? Why did George go, leaving a good home in Helsby,Cheshire,England where he was the first born son to David and Alice Savage nee Yates.

On his d/c George is classed as a labourer. employed by Mr.Francis Edward Tole...nr Kihikihi (I think)

George remained single. His parents would have been very proud that their son retained his Methodist roots.

Sincere apologies for being so long in getting back to you.

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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6
George Savage 1882 (drowned)
I'm back Our daughter has been very poorly since last September,, delighted to type,is now much better.

I have made considerable progress in my quest on my great uncle,George Savage. I now know more of why he drowned,thanks to that truly amazing web site Papers Past..New Zealand.

It was implied,at one stage that George had been horrifically murdered,at which point, a Police Sergeant was despatched to make further enquiries.

Sadly, a while later,George's body was found face down on the river bank. Because of the putrid state of his body,George was interred the following day in the Kihikihi cemetery (now closed). Later,there was a sale of his personal belongings and property by auction.

Having my uncle's (copy) death certificate, in a way gives 'closure.' Well, it would.Being so far away, I am now looking into the background surrounding George Savage. his short time of 4 years in N.Zealand. Of Mr Francis Edward Tole who was a gentleman of over 2,200 acres. Was his land farming land? fruit or wine land?

The Pinui River, is there a place called 'Pinui'? What does the name translate too & can I locate the River on a map? What sort of area does/did the river run through, how wide and deep is the river?

No doubt,there will be more questions to follow.

Many thanks

[KiwiChris]

The only place I can find is a Pinui Creek on the Kaipara Harbour north of Auckland. It appears that Francis Edward Tole was in Hurinui which is that sort of area.
http://www.kaipara2kaipara.co.nz/index.php?page=night-two

http://www.eske-style.co.nz/areas/kaipara/kaipara.asp

There is wine grown in the area now but it is mostly dairy and beef now, back then it would have been farming and kauri gum digging.

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Thank you KiwiChris for your kind information.;) Yes, farming would be correct, George coming from a family with strong farming roots (excuse the pun :d) My great grandfather was a farmer with,in those days, land he bought,plus a few cows to start with. Thus, grand-dad David Savage continued farming 'for life.' In grand-dad's last will & testament, he bequeathed his farm be sold and divided between his 5 sons,with a 'rider' that his beloved wife be given a set amount quarterly each year for life.

Why did George leave his home? No one knows. I need to log into the Latter Day Saints ships sailing site to see if,from that,there might be a clue..did George go as 3rd class passenger,or,steerage? Was his passage paid for by Mr.Tole,or an agent on his behalf? I surmise that,possibly George traveled alone.:(

Although I do have a vast amount of information on my great uncle,somehow,I feel there may be more.Not on George hmself, but the land/life he journeyed to ? It is this information I am seeking.

Thank you so much for your kind help.


Fingers crossed..the postcard shows you Frodsham in Cheshire (my lovely home village) around the time George left England. The photograph is looking down The Rock toward the village proper..Main Street.

I have many more olde Frodsham postcards in my collection.

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Does anyone know the www for the Latter Day Saints immigration shipping information ? I'm looking at 1877/ 1878

many thanks

[kiterunner]

This should take you to it:
New Zealand ship passenger lists 1871 - 1915 (https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/show#uri=http://search-api:8080/searchapi/search/collection/1609792&hash=Mrd8SMocDIIen2Q83tu%252B82PRagg%253D)

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:) Thank you KiteRunner for your fantastic www.Ships site. Not foung the Latter Day Saints site yet.this site is extremely informative even so.

I wonder if those immigrants had any concept of how long the journey, the difficulties especially if the weather was not 'calm.'

Many thanks for your kind assistance..:cool:

I will keep you updated with my progress. :cool:

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Safety harness attached, sea sickness pills to hand, I am now ready to trawl the shipping lines. ;(

[tenterfieldjulie]

I hope your seasickness is over lol and that your daughter is continuing to improve Archives 1.
What I have realised since joing GF, is that if ag labs, or those working in farming, did not want to have to move into industrial towns/cities in order to survive, they took the option of migrating.
I'm not sure if you have listened to it but Mark Dudley has posted a great thread on this general theme. If you check his posts under Member's List you should find it. It is a BBC talk from experts in this field and is most informative and interesting.

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Reading there was mention in the Grey River Argus, sounds like George Savage's disappearance was 'big news'.This could well be because of the continuing concerns between the native New Zealander and in-coming settlers?

A copy of George Savage's death certificate is now at the Records Office in Chester,Cheshire,England. The same place as his birth and baptism records, census records too up till and including 1871. George Savage's father's 'Last will and testament 'is also at the Records Office..In a way, father and son are re-united.:)