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vallee
14-09-10, 11:18
I am trying to sort out a complete family and badly need some advice.

Samuel KEEN Born 23 Apr 1821-1877 a Copper Plate Printer
marries
Sarah KEEN nee GILL 1824-1892

20 Nov 1843 St Philips Bethnal Green
both of Vincent Street

Amongst their many children are

John Thomas KEEN born 21 Feb 1850 2 Boundary Street Bethnal Green Baptised 17 Mar 1850 at St Leonards Shoreditch
according to LMA records on Ancestry

does not appear on any Census records but marries Catherine Mackdonough ,
3 Aug 1879 says his age is 25 ??? address for both Emanuel ??


Sibling
John Daniel KEEN born 15 Oct 1853 Registered in Dec 1853 Strand ,Baptised John William KEEN 9 Jun 1861 at St Clement Danes Strand
This is according to LDS

appears in only 1871 census as John KEEN living with parents at Golden Buildings St Clement Danes born abt 1854 England
Cannot find him after this

I have John Thomas Birth Cert so I know he is theirs
But dont want to have to get John Daniel(William)

cannot find any of them in 1861 which would help

Would you say only one John is theirs ?? even though the baptisms name both parents ?????
Thanks
Merry
14-09-10, 11:44
John Daniel KEEN born 15 Oct 1853 Baptised John William KEEN 9 Jun 1861 at St Clement Danes Strand

Is there an address given? (sorry if it's from Ancestry - I can't seem to find it)
Merry
14-09-10, 11:56
Oops, missed this bit:

This is according to LDS
vallee
14-09-10, 11:59
I dont know why he isnt on the 1851 census as he was born in February ???
Merry
14-09-10, 12:02
I dont know why he isnt on the 1851 census as he was born in February ???

How about John Thomas is b and bap before 1851 census but also died before it too (OK, no registration, but that could be missing etc!). Then they have John Daniel in 1853 and change his name once by the time he was baptised. I suppose he could have changed it again to John Thomas by the time he married?

Have you found Catherine Keen anywhere in 1881?
vallee
14-09-10, 12:05
funny enough NO cannot find them at all ??? and her Father who should be easy to find is a Darby Mackdonough Labourer according to the marriage cert cannot find him anywhere either
Thanks Merry suppose the first one could have died ?
Merry
14-09-10, 12:08
Might this be erm....one of them?!!

Name: John William Keen
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Year of Registration: 1882
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 28
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 165
Merry
14-09-10, 12:09
Darby Mackdonough

I decided he was Irish and never came to England!
Merry
14-09-10, 12:21
If you look at Catherine MacDonough's sig on the marriage record and then at the sig of Catherine Keen who married Edward Alexander Adams in March 1883 yuou will see their sigs are extremely similar (the Catherine bit). Catherine Keen says she is a 24 year old widow and her father is Charles MacDona labourer.

Hmmmmmmmmm..........................
vallee
14-09-10, 12:22
ooh yes its the right area Merry now is he the 1850 or the 1854 one ???
I thought it funny that the John William/Daniel wasn't baptised till 1860 ?
Thanks very much think I will get that death cert
vallee
14-09-10, 12:23
ooh didnt see that post wow Merry you are good shall look into that thanks again
Merry
14-09-10, 12:26
In 1891 I think they are Edward aged 27 furniture salesman from Deptford and Catherine 31 from the City of London (so forget Ireland!) living in Camberwell. No apparent children.
vallee
14-09-10, 12:32
you are brilliant I never thought to look for a Death for him so soon after the marriage wonder where they are in 1881 ??
Thanks so much Merry
Merry
14-09-10, 12:34
I bet they are lodging somewhere so you can't look for then as a couple on Ancestry. I tried adding bits of his occ to the search mix and her places of birth (City of London 1891 and Cripplegate 1901) but none of that helped. :(
vallee
14-09-10, 12:41
thanks again I shall have to send for his death cert now am sure that must be him .
vallee
14-09-10, 13:50
ooh found them in 1881 dont know why I couldn't before ? under John Keene born 1854 living in Camberwell , you little darling Merry thanks so much.
Merry
14-09-10, 14:19
Oooh nice one! lol
vallee
14-09-10, 14:22
on other question woud you say this is Catherine with her Father Darby ???? Mack not Mackdonough
Thanks
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=darby&gsln=mack&_81004010=1829&uidh=uld&pcat=1871UKI&h=29046497&recoff=1+2&db=uki1871&indiv=1
Merry
14-09-10, 14:25
I should think so!! What's Margaret Mack's occupation? Looks like teacher maker lol

And why did they transcribe some invisible brackets around the word City for Catherine's place of birth in 1881? No wonder I didn't find her when I looked for everyone born in City :(
vallee
14-09-10, 14:34
I'm on a roll now Merry so Tom is cooking Dinner LOL thanks so much
Merry
14-09-10, 17:26
Is he cooking MY dinner too? :cool:
vallee
14-09-10, 17:33
you wouldn't have liked it Merry
Roast Pork with Crackling
Roast Potatoes
Yorkshire Puds home made
Cauliflower
Broccoli
Brussels
French Beans
smothered in home made Gravy
not nice at all

only having ice cream for afters lol
Merry
14-09-10, 17:51
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::D
vallee
14-09-10, 18:23
oops he has now made some Lemon Curd tarts would you like one ?
Margaret in Burton
14-09-10, 18:40
oops he has now made some Lemon Curd tarts would you like one ?

I would!, haven't had one of those for years.
Merry
14-09-10, 19:56
s'pose I'm too late? *holds out plate hopefully*
vallee
14-09-10, 21:19
sorry Margaret and Merry he only made 24:d