View Full Version : 1911 - last chance to find Gibbons
My FMP subscription runs out soon and I've decided I can't justify renewing. However, I still can't find the Gibbons family in 1911 and would appreciate it if other eyes could look to see if I've missed them!
In 1901 they were at 15 Francis Street, West Ham.
Michael Gibbons age 40 Docker born Bishopsgate (there's a possible death 1905 so he might be missing from 1911, plus his age and place of birth vary a lot)
Mary Gibbons age 35 wife born Bishopsgate (in fact they weren't married till later).
Nellie Gibbons age 1 born West Ham
They later had Catherine, born at the same address July 1901.
Catherine definitely had a sister Norah but when she was born I don't know. She could be Nellie from 1901 but I can't find a birth reg that matches under any name.
There are a couple of possibles for Catherine/Norah in orphanages in 1911 but ages /names are slightly out. Their mother Mary lived till the 1920s so should be on there somewhere (and always gives her pob as Bishopsgate on every census).
Any help appreciated!:confused:
maggie_4_7
11-09-10, 15:15
If Michael did die in 1905 Mary may have remarried and her and the children are listed under the new husband's name on the 1911 census.
I've had a look - also did search for Nellie and Catherine without surname but I have only got half way through the list so far... :)
Is this Norah?
Births Jun 1904
Gibbons Norah W.Ham 4a 129
Thanks for looking, everyone.
Merry, I thought it might be but I found another Norah Gibbons in West Ham on the 1911, with different parents, whose age matched that birth:(
I'll have to have another go at my m-i-l to find out if Norah was older or younger than Catherine, I think. And see if she can narrow down when Michael died.
This lot are a nightmare - Michael especially. He changes his age all the time, has a first marriage to another woman with the same surname as his second wife but is missing from the 1891 census when they'd be together. No trace of a death for her, naturally. There were also some sons - whether from the 1st or 2nd marriage I don't know. One was supposed to have died at a particular battle in WW1 but I can't find a trace of his birth or death.
**sigh**
ElizabethHerts
11-09-10, 18:39
Possible births:
GIBBONS Ellen Mary West Ham Essex 1900 Jan-Feb-Mar
GIBBONS Catherine West Ham Essex 1901 Jul-Aug-Sep
ElizabethHerts
11-09-10, 18:45
Is this the marriage:
Marriages Jun 1901
Gibbons Michael West Ham 4a 308
MONTGOMERY Mary Ann W. Ham 4a 308
If so, we are looking for Mary Ann.
Yes, Elizabeth, that's the marriage, she is Mary Ann sometimes - sorry, forgot to include that.
The Catherine Gibbons birth you found is the right one, but Ellen's birth in 1900 isn't Nellie. I bought the birth cert some time ago, and she has different parents.;(
Merry, I thought it might be but I found another Norah Gibbons in West Ham on the 1911, with different parents, whose age matched that birth
Did you? The nearest fit I could get for that was Nora Gibbon aged 3 in 1911, though I have to say I couldn't find a birth reg for her, but I didn't think she was likely to fit with the 1904 birth reg. Maybe there's another Nora(h) I haven't found?
Did you? The nearest fit I could get for that was Nora Gibbon aged 3 in 1911, though I have to say I couldn't find a birth reg for her, but I didn't think she was likely to fit with the 1904 birth reg. Maybe there's another Nora(h) I haven't found?
Oh dear, I'll have top go back and check - I've looked at so many variations of names and ages I'm confusing myself lol! I know I had the 1904 birth down, but I deleted it the other day. Of course that strill leaves the question of who Nellie was...
I can see I'm going to have to send for more certs.:d
Joan of Archives
11-09-10, 21:07
Have you tried Gibbins instead of Gibbons? Just a thought?
Margaret in Burton
11-09-10, 21:11
Have you tried Gibbins instead of Gibbons? Just a thought?
I tried Gibb*
still nothing
Joan of Archives
11-09-10, 21:23
Oh that's a shame, mind you my great great grandmother Christiana was transcribed as "male" and with the name Christopher or something silly lol! :d
Do you have both marriage certs for Michael? If yes, please could you post up the details?
Michael's (possible) first marriage 1 April 1885 at St Andrews Plaistow:
Michael Gibbons, 28, bachelor, waiter, 27 Abbey Street, West Ham, father Thomas Gibbons, labourer, and Elizabeth Montgomery, age 30, spinster, 27 Abbey Street, father Michael Montgomery, hawker. Michael signed, Elizabeth made her mark. Witnesses Thomas C Treleaorn and Sarah Ann Nichols.
Michael's 2nd marriage 15 March 1901 at St Mary's parish of Victoria Dock, West Ham:
Michael Gibbons, 48, widower, labourer, 17 Francis Street, father Thomas Gibbons, gas stoker, and Mary Ann Montgomery age 34, spinster, 17 Francis Street, father Joseph Montgomery, labourer. Michael signed, Mary Ann made her mark. Witnesses William Lest(?) and Mary Ann Williamson
Michael's father's details match, but his age and occupation look iffy to me which is why I'm not completely convinced.
(And I think you were right about Norah, Merry, she could be the 1904 birth - really can't remember why I crossed that off my list!)
Have now spoken to m-i-l.
According to her (this is not necessarily reliable, lol!) Norah was 3 years older than Catherine.
And no-one knows when Michael died because he did a runner, leaving behind wife and 4 kids. This is the first time this has been mentioned! Why do our rellies do this?? Other times, I've found what I thought was new information and they nod and say, 'yes, that's right!':rolleyes:
maggie_4_7
12-09-10, 17:21
Have now spoken to m-i-l.
According to her (this is not necessarily reliable, lol!) Norah was 3 years older than Catherine.
And no-one knows when Michael died because he did a runner, leaving behind wife and 4 kids. This is the first time this has been mentioned! Why do our rellies do this?? Other times, I've found what I thought was new information and they nod and say, 'yes, that's right!':rolleyes:
:)
It's like taking evidence in a crime the witnesses don't know they know what they know until the right question is asked - and how you ask it makes all the diffrence too :)
Thnaks for posting up the marriage details.........erm........they don't help, do they?! lol
Thnaks for posting up the marriage details.........erm........they don't help, do they?! lol
Glad it's not just me :d
Having got Norah's married name from m-i-l I think I've now found her death, aged 97. Guess what, that means she was born 1904 after all.
I give up:d
Have you found a marriage for Norah as well?
ElizabethHerts
13-09-10, 13:07
Glad it's not just me :d
Having got Norah's married name from m-i-l I think I've now found her death, aged 97. Guess what, that means she was born 1904 after all.
I give up:d
The games the families play with us! OH's grandmother told us her maiden name was Humphries (presumably to throw us off the scent of her mother as she was illegitimate). However, I got the marriage certificate for her and OH's grandfather, and they never did understand how I found out her real maiden name!!
This doesn't help much, but in 1911 there's a Honora Gibbons aged 6 b West Ham at St Mary's Orphanage in Walthamstow, Essex. As there is no birth reg for a Honora I wondered if it was your Norah? I don't think you would have had to lose both parents to be in an orphanage at that date and I can see that if Michael had done a runner then Mary might have had to put Norah in an institution so Mary could get work.
St Mary's Orphanage was for Catholic children, so I would imagine that makes it more likely to be your Norah.
I also wondered about Honora, especially as there's a Catherine Gibbons in another Catholic orphanage (although her age is slightly wrong).
Having discovered there were 4 children, I'm also wondering about the other 2. Catherine had brothers (plural) although they weren't close and she lost touch with them. Which implies little Nellie died. No-one in the family seems to know anything about her, poor little scrap. I can't even identify a possible birth.
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