View Full Version : 1851 check please.
I cannot find this person in 1851 on Ancestry.......but The Genealogist has the image as clear as day.......That's the second time I've found that happening, so can someone else please try Ancestry?
Thanks.
Sarah TAYLOR age 72 (born 1779) Bristol, unmarried.
She is at 22 Stokes Croft, Bristol St James.
I'd like to think I'm not going blind......lol
I cannot find this person in 1851 on Ancestry.......but The Genealogist has the image as clear as day.......That's the second time I've found that happening, so can someone else please try Ancestry?
Thanks.
Sarah TAYLOR age 72 (born 1779) Bristol, unmarried.
She is at 22 Stokes Croft, Bristol St James.
I'd like to think I'm not going blind......lol
pmsl!! How dare you find her when I looked for ages! Does the Genealogist give you any piece number or other ref?
Oh, you mean Sarah Faylor lol (on Ancestry)
What is it with your (OH's) family? Why do they always chuck you a little snippet but not makes things clear?
I presume this is the visitor from 1851
Name: Harriett Desprez
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Clifton
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 46
Got any spare Harriets?
Got a few Harriets.......lol......just checking who the heck she is now.
Have you seen how many Sarah Taylors die in the Bristol area between 1851 and 1861??? I WANT that will but I'll have to mortgage the house to buy the death certs to get the right one.....lol
Was there a will for Sarah then? I thought there was only a Bristol will for her mum? (1850?). Maybe I didn't look because I didn't know when she died!
How old is Maria Allen on that census page? (the 'other' visitor)
Philip Soulbieu DESPREZ married Harriet Ann Boulton LEWIS Bristol Dec 1837.
Cor I hope she's just a friend......lol.....the census doesn't say she related...just visitor.
Sounds a bit of a toff though, doesn't she???? lol
Was there a will for Sarah then? I thought there was only a Bristol will for her mum? (1850?). Maybe I didn't look because I didn't know when she died!
How old is Maria Allen on that census page? (the 'other' visitor)
Looks like 47 and married. Born Dorset.
Harriet is widowed.
Sorry...no will for Sarah on the Bristol wills page. Don't suppose she married after Mummy died ???
Maybe, but probably not!
Erm, should we be informing all the readers of this thread what you are on about? (or what I am! lol)
Feel free..................I have a serious headache......for real actually. At least i know what caused it...lol
OK...scrap that marriage for Harriet.
All the online trees have Philip Desprez marrying Caroline Cardon/Carden.
And she is on the same page as flippin Harriet on FreeBMD.
Erm OK........*reaches for migraine pills*
In 1841 there's a household at Stokes Croft Bristol as follows:
Mary Berry 76 Ind Yes
Eliz Taylor 86 Ind Yes
Sarah Taylor 66 Ind Yes
Jane Phillips 26 FS No
Eliz Taylor is the widow of Joshua Taylor (don't know when/where he died). Eliz died in 1850 apparently aged 98 (Gentleman's Mag). We think she left a will (Bristol Wills Index). Her maiden name was .......Ariel! Elizabeth and Joshua married at St James Bristol in 1775. Being an Ariel Elizabeth was never actually born (ie no bap etc), but we are pretty certain her parents were William Ariel and Elizabeth Grifith (various spellings) as her death notice said she was a sister to their son, William, father of Myles (for those in the know!). Elizabeth was the great-aunt of the famous Agatha!
Sarah Taylor, on the above census, is the unmarried dau of Joshua and Eliz Taylor. Libby wants to find her death and will (if she had one). I'm wondering if she lasted out to have her will proved during the gap in Ancestry's probate index between 1858 and 1861?
Mary Berry (above) was the widow of Charles Berry (m 1804 St James Bristol). Charles and Mary both left PCC wills which I think Libby is getting. It's possible they had no children which could make the wills more interesting. Mary's maiden name was.........Ariel!
Obviously Mary Ariel was also never born :rolleyes: and we are trying to think of ways of proving she was another sister to Elizabeth and William (father of Myles)
Erm, that's it in a nutshell :D
kiterunner
09-09-10, 11:17
Is Joshua the same person as Jacob, and if so, what was his real name?
lolol!! Erm, Joshua sorry - will amend post - these people are enough of a problem without me forgetting their names!
And I think I just found Harriet Desprez in 1841 as a teacher. Looks like she has a 4 year old son but the image isn't that clear for him. No hubby though.
The Desprez family are around as clergy ........just what i don't need any more of...lol.
Wonder if Harriet was a sister and never married, but the 1851 clearly shows her as W.
I think I'll leave her and the other lady Maria Allen who is also visiting Sarah in 1851. They can sit on the back burner until I need them...lol
There's no sign of Sarah in 1861 so I think she may have passed on by then.
kiterunner
09-09-10, 11:28
I can have a look at the National Probate Calendar for 1858 - 1860 next week or possibly tomorrow to see if there is an entry for Sarah.
kiterunner
09-09-10, 11:30
Oh, and I think they have PCC admons from 1853 to 1857 at my local record office as well, although there is very little info in the entries for those.
That would be really helpful, Kate! Thanks.
I agree about the backburner for Harriet Desprez and Maria Allen. I did just notice that Harriet's son,
Births Sep 1837
DESPREZ Francis George Clifton 11 184
didn't die or marry or anything, which sounds Ariel-ish! (I expect he is there but spelled wrong - didn't check!).
The Desprezs in Gloucestershire were non-cons as might be expected (Family Search pilot)
I've got Charles Berry and Mary Berry's wills.
They are those awful TNA ones written in unreadable script. Will print them out and see if they are easier.
Thanks KiteRunner. I can't give you much inof on Sarah, except she was born around 1779 in Bristol and can't be found in 1861.
I can read on Mary Berry's will that Ann is her sister. Ann married David Miller. I know that much....
She also leaves something to her niece Agatha Evill. Agatha was the daughter of William Ariel and Elizabeth Kirkby so that makes is right that Mary Berry is the daughter William Ariell and Eliz Griffith.
There are 5 pages in Mary's will and another 5 in Charles'. This could take a few days....lol
If they are not too long I don't mind having a go at a will (one! lol)
Libby, are there any Grays marrying into any of 'your' families?
There are 5 pages in Mary's will and another 5 in Charles'. This could take a few days....lol
lol! I'll do Mary's then :D (If you like - just email it)
I can read on Mary Berry's will that Ann is her sister. Ann married David Miller. I know that much....
She also leaves something to her niece Agatha Evill. Agatha was the daughter of William Ariel and Elizabeth Kirkby so that makes is right that Mary Berry is the daughter William Ariell and Eliz Griffith.
Oops I missed this post!
Don't think I know about the Millers, do I?
Sorry Merry I was just trying to send myself blind.
I didn't know there were any Grays......................until I saw this will....lol
Should I be scared????
I'll flick it off to you in an email.
Thanks, I got it!
Libby, are there any Grays marrying into any of 'your' families?
I didn't know there were any Grays......................until I saw this will....lol
Should I be scared????
I didn't really expect you to find Grays, never mind in that will! (I've only read a few lines and stopped when it said: I bequeath unto my niece Elizabeth Gray wife of the Rev Wm Gray of Northampton Baptist Minister ...blah, blah
That Maria Allen (married, b Dorchester) who was a visitor in 1851 is visiting another family in 1861....
1 Stuart Villas, St James & St Paul Bristol:
Elizabeth Gray head w 84 Annuitant of Baptist Society b Bristol, Somerset
Eliza Gray dau unm 45 ditto b Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
Maria Allen visitor w 61 Fundholder b Dorchester, Dorset
one house servant
Not sure how the exact connection might go though.....
And someone said getting the will might make it EASIER!!! lol
I don't know who said that?!!
I have to go to bed............the eyes are closing.
Now I'm writing another list of wills. I think Ann Kirkby Ariel/Miller/Drew's might be needed. I was thinking about that one, but I'd better act on it.
Thanks.
For 'tomorrow'......Do you have your tree anywhere where we can actually see it, Libby? I have a few bits written down but sometimes something can come from the overall picture.....
Morning Merry~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have an oldish one on Tribal pages. I can add this latest and put it somewhere, though. Where is the best place????
I can send a gedcom??
samesizedfeet
09-09-10, 21:16
I'm quite good and also fairly quick at WIlls if there are any left that need transcribing. Leaving work shortly but I'll PM you my email in case you still need to send them over. Be home by about midnight.
I can read them at virtually normal reading pace (except for the names sometimes, if I don't know who to expect!), but I'm slow at typing. However, if you just want to know who had what, then I can just do a list to save all the legal waffle....let me know - I'll be doing Mary tomorrow, I guess.
Morning Merry~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have an oldish one on Tribal pages. I can add this latest and put it somewhere, though. Where is the best place????
I can send a gedcom??
Morning!! lol
Maybe you could update the tribal pages tree and then let those of us who want to, see it with a password or whatever?
OK. I really only need the names and relationships from the will. What they got is an added bonus cos I'm nosey....lol
I sent Charles Berry's to Zoe......
I can't download Ann Kirkby Ariel/ Miller/ Drew's because it's too late, so that will take longer to get.
So will the Bristol ones.....
Thanks.
samesizedfeet
10-09-10, 00:34
Libby,
My mythical trip to the probate office that didn't happen last week is going ahead next Wednesday or Friday if you want me to add anything on the list for you.
samesizedfeet
10-09-10, 00:35
p.s. transcribed Will sent back by email. I struggled a bit with surnames I'm afraid.
Thank you Zoe..................I have no idea how you read those wills. As I said, I've done some much earlier ones that are written in a beautiful copperplate type hand, but the TNA ones get me every time..
I'm not sure of some of those names either, but they will pop up again and I'll be able to find homes for them...............hopefully....lol
Maybe if you feel the urge, you could post up the difficult names from the other will, just in case they are vital! Will 'do' Mary today.
You mean like ............Rachel ?????? lol
I have been racing around here working all day (no housework done at all...lol)
I think the only names mentioned apart from Elizabeth and Sarah Taylor are Charles' rellies...but..there's
Ann Christopher, widow, daughter of my late brother, George Berry
Ann's daughter, Mary Angel (late Christopher)
Margaret Berry
Charles Berry, my late nephew
Sarah Williams , daughter of above nephew
Niece Rachel ??? daughter of my late brother George Berry and wife of Bartholomew ???
Another of George's daughters, Jane ??? wife of William ???
Then there's waht looks like Mary Hoffsiter??
Thomas Roberts, Rev William GRAY (both Baptist ministers)
And Sarah Smith of Jacob St, gets 19 pounds.......(I'd say she might be a servant??) The others are getting 100s and 1,000 pounds.
There's also money going to all sorts of Baptist churches...
Niece Rachel ??? daughter of my late brother George Berry and wife of Bartholomew ???
1851 offers me Bart and Rachel Furse or Lyth.
1861 offers me Bart and Rachel Lairsey, but I think it's Fursey.
Any good?
Mary Hoffsiter
I've seen that name somewhere before recently.
Gawd.....................I'm losing the will to live............
The Rachel and Bart looks like ....... wait for it....... Kovarliuh lol
Can't find anything interesting on the non-con list...
ElizabethHerts
10-09-10, 08:37
Libby, I have rather lost myself on this thread and can't see whether you found the will for Sarah Taylor. :d
FMP have the Death Duty Registers and so far I have found this one:
1858
Taylor Sarah Bristol Executor: Mary A Clark (followed by something - abbreviation - I can't read) Swansea
Court: Bristol 1147
Oooh Elizabeth...that could be it.
I don't even know if getting a possible death cert for that Sarah may help. She was an only child and a spinster. I'd only know it was her if I recognized the informant.
Maybe getting that will might be money better spent.
That will isn't on the Bristol will index up to 1858......where would I get it??
kiterunner
10-09-10, 09:12
If it's 1858 then you would have to get it from a Probate Registry or sub-registry, such as York.
Thanks KiteRunner.
That one is on the list now as well....
kiterunner
10-09-10, 09:30
I'll get the details off the National Probate Calendar when I go to the record office, Libby. Now we have the year it should only take a few minutes so I should be able to fit it in today.
Gawd.....................I'm losing the will to live............
The Rachel and Bart looks like ....... wait for it....... Kovarliuh lol
Can't find anything interesting on the non-con list...
pmsl!
I like this entry then:
Name: Rachel Kovachich
Year of Registration: 1843
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Clifton
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 201
Erm, can't see any signs in 1841 though!
kiterunner
10-09-10, 14:18
National Probate Calendar 1858:
TAYLOR Sarah. Effects under £200. 25 June. The Will of Sarah Taylor late of 9 Park-street in the Parish of St Philip and Jacob in the City of County of Bristol Spinster deceased who died 11 March 1857 at Park-street aforesaid was proved at Bristol by the oath of Mary Ann Clark (Wife of George Clark of 21 John-street Swansea in the County of Glamorgan Coker) the Sister and one of the Executors.
Well, I've often wondered whether there were any people who died before 1858 listed in the National Probate Calendar, so I'm glad I looked that one up!
I don't know if that is her or not? (I don't think it is, but we'll see what Libby thinks!)
Mary from Italy
10-09-10, 15:40
It doesn't take you any further, but I thought you might be interested in this extract from the website of the Cairns Road, Bristol, Baptist Church, which was originally based in Old King Street, Bristol:
http://www.cairnsroad.org/history2.aspx
October 24th, 1779, the following persons were baptised: Brethren Francis Brown, Paul Birt, and Sisters Edgehill, Sarah Harris, and Mary Ariel.
Could well be your Mary, who would have been about 14 at the time. There's also a reference to "Brother Berry" in 1780.
kiterunner
10-09-10, 15:43
I don't know if that is her or not? (I don't think it is, but we'll see what Libby thinks!)
Oh dear, I hadn't realised it might not be the right one. I didn't really have time to plough through the other years though so if it's not her I'll have a look next week.
Well, we are fairly certain she died 1851-1861. There's nothing on the PCC wills or the Bristol Wills Index or Ancestry's NPC and we thought she would have made one. Mind you, I don't think her father did (Joshua Taylor) and we only have a 'maybe' for her mother (Elizabeth Taylor) from the Bristol Wills Index, so perhaps she didn't? Difficult with such a commonplace name.
It doesn't take you any further, but I thought you might be interested in this extract from the website of the Cairns Road, Bristol, Baptist Church, which was originally based in Old King Street, Bristol:
http://www.cairnsroad.org/history2.aspx
October 24th, 1779, the following persons were baptised: Brethren Francis Brown, Paul Birt, and Sisters Edgehill, Sarah Harris, and Mary Ariel.
Could well be your Mary, who would have been about 14 at the time. There's also a reference to "Brother Berry" in 1780.
Sounds very promising!
anne fraser
10-09-10, 20:42
But what hapened to Agatha?
Anne..............Agatha born 1822 (there are a few Agathas, but she's the one we've been doing most on) went to France and remarried in Paris and died a few years later. I don't have anything about her death yet but keep trying.....lol
I really don't think that Sarah is mine. For a start, she would have had more money unless she gave it all away prior to her death........and........did it mean that Mary Clark was her sister????? She was an only child (possible brother who died earlier). Certainly an only child when her grandfather's will was written.
So I still have to find wills for............
Sarah Taylor
Joshua Taylor
David Miller
Maybe also Sarah's mother, Elizabeth Taylor if that Bristol one isn't her's.
I do think they all would have left wills.
They DID have to leave a will, didn't they???
There are two wills for Joshua Taylor on TNA.
One is 1799, Gentleman of Wiltshire.
The other is 1818, Timber merchant of Surrey.
I know he married in Bristol and his wife was there in 1841 but no idea where they were between times. Joshua was dead by 1833 when his father in laws will was written.
I'll download those two wills and hope Zoe is in a will reading mood........lol
kiterunner
10-09-10, 22:46
Nobody had to leave a will. After all, what could the authorities do to punish them if they didn't?! What you're looking for is the probate or administration - if their estate was worth above a certain amount, then the court would have to okay it. If they left a will but hardly any money, then you would be very unlikely to find a copy of any will because it would be dealt with privately by the family.
I do have people in my tree who you would think were bound to leave enough money to require probate or administration but don't appear in the National Probate Calendar, and I think what happened is they managed to give their money and assets to their children during their lifetime to avoid death duties.
Mary from Italy
10-09-10, 22:57
In case it's useful, the executor of the Elizabeth Taylor whose will was proved in Bristol in 1850 was Geo E Taylor of Bristol.
Thanks Mary.......where did you find that?
That is unlikely to be one of Joshua's brothers as Elizabeth was 98 when she died, but could well be a nephew.....
Got to hang this washing out....first fine day for a while...then I'll get those two wills for Joshuas...
Mary from Italy
10-09-10, 23:37
Just to go back to the Grays that Merry mentioned, I've noticed something that may come in useful.
On TNA there's an 1854 probate of the will of Reverend Joshua Taylor Gray, Dissenting Minister, Classical Tutor of Stepney College, Middlesex.
He appears to be the son of Rev William Gray and Elizabeth Taylor of Bristol; this article says he died in 1856, but I assume that's a mistake, as it seems to be the same person, and FreeBMD confirms the date of death:
http://www.archive.org/stream/historycolleges00taylgoog#page/n70/mode/1up
Deaths Sep 1854
Gray Joshua Taylor Clifton 6a 51
According to the 1851 census he was a Baptist minister, born c. 1809 in Devonport, Devonshire.
I originally wondered if he was the child of a second marriage of Elizabeth Ariel, but she would have been too old in 1809.
If his mother was Mary Berry née Ariel's niece, she ought to be the child of Joshua Taylor and Elizabeth Ariel, but you said Sarah was their only child, so I'm getting confused.
Mary from Italy
10-09-10, 23:38
Thanks Mary.......where did you find that?
Hi Libby,
I'll PM you.
samesizedfeet
10-09-10, 23:43
I am awake and that counts as being in a Will reading mood.
I am awake and that counts as being in a Will reading mood.
Neat....
Mary...I'll be back with you in a mo.
Mary from Italy
10-09-10, 23:57
There's a long obit of Joshua Taylor Gray here, which says he was survived by his widowed mother, who lived in Bristol.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f-cRAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR5&dq=%22joshua+taylor+gray%22&hl=en&ei=S8SKTPTDPIiGswbrz-iEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22%20taylor%20gray%22&f=false
Just to go back to the Grays that Merry mentioned, I've noticed something that may come in useful.
On TNA there's an 1854 probate of the will of Reverend Joshua Taylor Gray, Dissenting Minister, Classical Tutor of Stepney College, Middlesex.
He appears to be the son of Rev William Gray and Elizabeth Taylor of Bristol; this article says he died in 1856, but I assume that's a mistake, as it seems to be the same person, and FreeBMD confirms the date of death:
http://www.archive.org/stream/historycolleges00taylgoog#page/n70/mode/1up
Deaths Sep 1854
Gray Joshua Taylor Clifton 6a 51
According to the 1851 census he was a Baptist minister, born c. 1809 in Devonport, Devonshire.
I originally wondered if he was the child of a second marriage of Elizabeth Ariel, but she would have been too old in 1809.
If his mother was Mary Berry née Ariel's niece, she ought to be the child of Joshua Taylor and Elizabeth Ariel, but you said Sarah was their only child, so I'm getting confused.
Well Mary......there's Grays in the tree of Mary Berry (Elizabeth Taylor's sister)
They are all Baptists....
So better get that one as well.
There could have been other children for Elizabeth and Joshua. I've never found Sarah's birth, only on wills.
The first time she pops up is on her uncle's will of 1833 (proved 1836). As her mother married Joshua in 1775, there is oodles of time for other children to have been born, married and died....
There's a long obit of Joshua Taylor Gray here, which says he was survived by his widowed mother, who lived in Bristol.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f-cRAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR5&dq=%22joshua+taylor+gray%22&hl=en&ei=S8SKTPTDPIiGswbrz-iEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22%20taylor%20gray%22&f=false
Wow......
samesizedfeet
11-09-10, 00:36
Sent Zoe...
Thanks.
I'll get started on it but probably won't have time to do a complete transcription before I drop off. What are you mainly after - names/relationships?
samesizedfeet
11-09-10, 00:37
ignore me - I just read your email
Just whether Joshua's wife is Elizabeth and daughter Sarah....
If not, it's not him so don't go any firther. I'll buy the other one. Thanks.
samesizedfeet
11-09-10, 00:50
Joshua Taylor of Devizes County of WIlts, late of Brislington(?) in county of Somerset
Mr JOhn Cumberland Asford of Little Cheverell County of WIlts
"Mrs" Mary Asford of Devizes, spinster
Mrs Ann Pearce of Devizes, victualler
Miss Ann Pearce daughter of the above Ann Pearce
nephew Thomas Beale
Mr Thomas Murray of the City of Bath
nephews and niece WIlliam Taylor, John Beale, William Beale, Sarah Beale and Benjamin Beale
he doesn't appear to have a wife or children of his own who he's left anything to
B****R!!!
I'd say it's not him..............except the blinky Ariels are littered with BEALES!!!
I'll need a think and alie down and a big valium!!!
Thanks Zoe........wait till Merry sees this...she'll go nuts......lol
I'll have to get the other Joshua Taylor will now.
Credit card money isn't real money, is it?????? lol
Mary from Italy
11-09-10, 00:59
Didn't one of the Ariels marry a Beale?
Mary from Italy
11-09-10, 00:59
Ah, I see they did :)
samesizedfeet
11-09-10, 01:03
credit card money is definitely NOT real. Most definitely, as that's how i was able to buy a 2nd totally unnecessary coat on the way home form work this evening.
going to put kettle on and grab a snack - if you get it email it straight through and I'll do it before I bed down for the night
OK...seeing a credit card money isn't real, I've just bought both the other Joshua and the Baptist guy....
I'll email the other Joshua Zoe.
Please tell me the little I copuld read is NOT Savage.......got them and Savory being the family legal eagles......
Looks like wife Margaret and children Mary and Joshua.
Ah well.....back to the drawing board....
samesizedfeet
11-09-10, 01:34
Joshua Taylor of Rotherhithe in the County of Surrey, Timber Merchant
family of the late Mr Thomas Savage (I think Savage had given Taylor something rather than received a bequest)
wife Margaret Taylor
daughter Mary Taylor
son Joshua Taylor
Joshua John Taylor eldest child of my son Joshua Taylor
James Taylor the second son of of my son Joshua Taylor
I appoint Sarah HIll of Saint Georges Row Oxford street in the county of MIddlesex (widow)
and John Allsop of Union Street in the borough of Southwark county of Surrey Executrix and Executor
off to bed. night night x
Thanks Zoe. Sleep well....
Morning!!
I've not quite taken in everything written above. Just wanted to say, on the subject of whether Joshua and Eliz Taylor had surviving children other than Sarah (which seemed unlikely because she was the only one mentioned in.....erm....someone's will!)....In the will of Mary Berry (proved 1848), Eliz Taylr's sister, that I looked at yesterday she left £200 to her nephew, Edward Perkins Taylor of Bath. Employed by Messrs Shaw and Beale.
So, if this were any other family I would say EP Taylor would be a son of Joshua and Eliz, but I realise this family are not like normal people lol
Maybe he's a great nephew and i missed out a word? I don't have access to the will at the moment (from my bed lol)
EDIT: Having looked on Ancestry very briefly, no EP Taylor seems to have died, so I'm wondering if the had capitalised and mis-spelled his occ, so the will should have read Edwin Perkins, tailor? lol What sort of firm were Shaw and Beale?
Hmm....there's an Edward Perkins Taylor 1813-1886 to too young to be Eliz & Joshua's son.
These Ariels are good at sidetracking me! lol
Oooh, that might be him! He was in Islington mostof his adult life and married there in Nov 1848 (on the back of expecting his £200?!!)
Anyway, his marriage is on Ancestry LMA and his father was Joshua Taylor, clerk. Given that Edward was b abt 1813 he is presumably the child of Eliz and Joshua Taylor's son, Joshua who was buried in 1818 aged 35 (in Bristol, but the son was b in Devizes, Wilts)
If this is the marriage of Joshua junr he was either very young (17/18) or the age at burial is a year or two out:
Groom's Name: Joshua Taylor
Bride's Name: Charlotte Perkins
Marriage Date: 18 Dec 1800
Marriage Place: St. Nicholas, Bristol, Gloucester, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I03910-0
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1595889
Reference Number: Item 2
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973
Didn't find any siblings:
Name: Edward Perkins Taylor
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 05 Apr 1820 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<not a baby then...
Baptism/Christening Place: Weston, Somerset, England
Father's Name: Joshua Taylor
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02269-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1526764
Reference Number: Item 11, p39
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Merry.....remember they are Ariels, even if only by marriage (so am I, which is a constant worry) but also they are mostly baptists so not given to a lot of infant baptisms.
The will of joshua Taylor (d 1818) does name a son Joshua.
Would I be banned from this site if I mentioned I found a non-con minister named Joshua Taylor along with some Berry fellow in the USA in 1804.......lol
Can't read the whole article and it was sort of 'mixed up'......fits in really well when you think about it.....
anne fraser
11-09-10, 15:16
I wonder if it is worth writing to the chapel. Our local baptist admits babies on to the cradle roll with a special service. I am not sure what details are added.
I'm confused....
The will of joshua Taylor (d 1818) does name a son Joshua.
Oh, but not a son Edward Perkins? I thought the 1818 will would be for the Joshua who was buried that year, but he was only 35 whe he died, so that would be the son not the father? I've not found a possible burial for the father.
Joshua Taylor, age 40, buried 27th August, 1818. Abode, Westgate Buildings, Bathwick, Somerset.
Haven't fitted him anywhere yet.
I wonder if it is worth writing to the chapel. Our local baptist admits babies on to the cradle roll with a special service. I am not sure what details are added.
Anne......I've found a few infant baptisms at the "Particular Baptist Chapel" in Yorkshire.
Do you know if that is a different 'brand' of baptist???
Mary from Italy
11-09-10, 22:13
Yes, I think the General Baptists were more common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baptist_sub-denominations
Joshua Taylor, age 40, buried 27th August, 1818. Abode, Westgate Buildings, Bathwick, Somerset.
Haven't fitted him anywhere yet.
Ah,so there were two burials for a Joshua Taylor in 1818. If you have the will for this non-conformist one and he doesn't mention a son Edward Perkins, then maybe the other burial (in March 1818) is the son of Joshua and Eliz?
Merry.......where did you get the "age 35" bit???? Sorry...it's starting to blur.
The 1818 will I got was for Joshua Taylor of Rotherhite, Surrey. Zoe put the bare details up a few posts ago.......wife, Margaret, Children, Mary and Joshua, but also grandson, Joshua John???
I need to go back and look at E P Taylor........can't remember if he had a brother Abe or if that was someone else.
Back soon.....
Would you like to take a look at William Ariel and Elizabeth Kirkby???
I'll put their piccie up.
Here they are......
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u268/Libby055/Family/WilliamAriel.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u268/Libby055/Family/ElizabethKirkby.jpg
They weren't meant to be that big........only put the little ones up.....
Nah.......It's Joshua Taylor GRAY (the preacher) who has a brother Abraham Booth Gray.
Back to Eddie.....lol
Where's OC????
There's a Joshua Taylor marrying a Mary HOLDEN in Lancs 1797.......lol
Mary from Italy
12-09-10, 10:53
What fantastic pictures - like something out of Jane Austen.
Yes Mary......they are painted on an ivory locket. The one of William I have seen before......but I've no idea where and I didn't know it was him ????
Certainly nobody I can think of knew of the pictures.
Merry.......where did you get the "age 35" bit???? Sorry...it's starting to blur.
lol! This is a burial from Family Search Pilot whatsit:
Name: Joshua Taylor
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 22 Mar 1818
Burial Place: Bristol, Gloucester, England
Age: 35
Birth Date: 1783
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B17288-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1596926
Reference Number:
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
But it's not the same person as Libby found a will for (I don't think anyway). Just they were buried in the same year.
I don't think it is the same fellow Merry.
The one I found is on the non-con register and the image clearly shows 40..
No, I know they are not the same one, I was trying to establish if one of them is the son of Joshua and Elizabeth. The one who is would be the father of Edward Perkins Taylor. If the one who was 40 wrote a will and didn't mention his son or the right wife, then maybe that Joshua is the wrong one. Is it 100% clear which man the will belongs to?
The 1818 will I have is clearly from a timber merchant in Rotherhite. He has a grandson so probably older than 35 or 40, but also seems well entrenched in the Surrey/London area.
Mustn't have been a good year for Joshua Taylors.......
I still think, unless there was a huge bust-up, any grandchild of Joshua and Elizabeth (m. 1775) would be mentioned in William Ariel's will of 1833.
I can't find anyone on Ancestry doing Edward Perkins Taylor............will try other places today.
I still think, unless there was a huge bust-up, any grandchild of Joshua and Elizabeth (m. 1775) would be mentioned in William Ariel's will of 1833.
True, but Mary Berry includes him!
Oh blow!!! Somehow I forgot that..............lol
Just thought to myself...."Myself, you have half an hour to spare. Why don't you have another look at the Taylors?"
Well, I've just re-read this, taken up my half hour and lost the will to live.....lol
kiterunner
20-09-14, 11:57
Do you know whether you had found anything out about them since the last post on this thread, Libby?
I didn't even remember half of what was on this thread until I just read it again....lol
No, I really have nothing else. I can't even find Elizabth and Joshua's marriage on Familysearch anymore and that is the only place I ever saw it, although I know it happened.
I was looking to see if there were any new will sites online to see if Joshua's will has come to light or Elizabeth's, although, with Elizabeth being so old when she died, I'm assuming maybe not.
Her death notice was 3rd April 1850 and it said she was 98. Oddly there is a birth on Family search for Elizabeth Ariel in 1745, daughter of William. I'm assuming an earlier sibling who died......otherwise Elizabeth (Taylor) was 105 when she died.
kiterunner
20-09-14, 15:42
Oddly there is a birth on Family search for Elizabeth Ariel in 1745, daughter of William. I'm assuming an earlier sibling who died......otherwise Elizabeth (Taylor) was 105 when she died.
There is an Elizabeth Ariell who married a John Abbott 5 Apr 1768 at Bristol St James. Both of the parish, married by banns, but the disk doesn't include info such as witnesses' names etc unfortunately.
The Joshua Taylor / Elizabeth Ariell marriage was 13 Jul 1775, also at Bristol St James. Joshua was of the parish, an accountant, Elizabeth of Castle Precincts, spinster, marriage was by licence.
Other Ariel(l)s on the CD:
Jane who married John Griffiths 31 Dec 1767 St James, both of the parish, by licence
Ann who married Thomas Ormond 23 Dec 1759 St James, both of the parish, by banns
Sarah who married Nicholas Walker 10 Nov 1764 St Philip & St Jacob, both of the parish, by banns
and Mary who married Charles Berry 15 Aug 1804 at St James, Charles a gentleman of St Philip & St Jacob, Mary a spinster of the parish, by licence.
kiterunner
20-09-14, 15:51
Also the disk has the Joshua Taylor / Charlotte Perkins marriage 18 Dec 1800 at St Nicholas, Joshua of the parish of St James, Charlotte of the parish, by licence.
kiterunner
20-09-14, 15:56
Burials:
Jos Taylor 18 Aug 1832 at Lewins Mead Unitarian, age 64. Jos would almost certainly be short for Joseph but you never know.
Joshua Taylor 22 Mar 1818 St Philip & St Jacob, age 35.
Joshua Taylor 25 Nov 1814 Lewins Mead Unitarian, age 91.
It doesn't include post-1837 burials.
I haven't read this thread again, but did find this in my Photobucket and didn't know if it would help at all? MB at the bottom is Mary Berry (pity it's not this Mary Berry who was featured on WDYTYA? a couple of weeks ago! :rolleyes:)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m13/merry_monty_montgomery/Other%20Research/Image1.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/merry_monty_montgomery/media/Other%20Research/Image1.jpg.html)
kiterunner
20-09-14, 16:17
I should think it would be worth searching for Joshua, Elizabeth and Sarah Taylor in the Index to Death Duty Registers on FMP again now that they have it fully searchable. I don't have a sub so I can't look at the images.
I'm hoping Libby will know where they might have lived/died to save me wading through the thread again (as I didn't write that on that bit of paper!), then I will have a look on the Death Duty Reg if Libby doesn't have a sub.
kiterunner
20-09-14, 16:33
Don't forget that some of the entries on the Index to Death Duty Register show the place of residence of the executor / administrator rather than of the deceased. But anyway, I think they are all supposed to have died in Bristol.
OK, so for starters I'll look at Bristol and consider working outwards. No doubt the exors will have lived there too (I hope!)
Searched Taylor Bristol:
1852 Eliz Taylor exor Wm Taylor Bristol
1850 Elizabeth Taylor Bristol exor Geo E Taylor
No Joshuas
1858 Sarah Taylor Bristol exor Mary A Clark Swansea
1859 Sarah Taylor Sydenham Road Bristol exor Abraham B Grey 6 Charlotte St Bristol
So, the second Sarah is the right one as Abraham is her nephew, but I don't know if either of the Elizabeths are right.
kiterunner
20-09-14, 16:49
This is the National Probate Calendar entry for Sarah:
1859
TAYLOR Sarah
Effects under £3,000.
24 October.
The Will with two Codicils of Sarah Taylor formerly of Stokes Croft but late of Sydenham-road both in the City of Bristol Spinster deceased who died 11 October at Sydenham-road aforesaid was proved at Bristol by the oaths of Abraham Booth Gray of 6 Charlotte-street Blackfriars-road London House Agent the Nephew and Charles Joseph Whittuck of King's-square in the said City of Bristol Gentleman the Executors
1852 Eliz Taylor exor Wm Taylor Bristol
1850 Elizabeth Taylor Bristol exor Geo E Taylor
There's a mention of the second of these in post #64, but I've not read around it to see why we liked that one!
Morning all.......thanks for working through the night for me......lol
I honestly have no idea where my brain is lately. I have full subs for FMP and Ancestry, but have no idea why as I cannot find anything on either. I didn't renew my Genealogist sub and I really miss it.
Can you put together a shopping list for me. My daughter is asking me what I want for Christmas......lol.
We know Liz died in 1850, but I don't think the death cert will tell us much we don't already know.
I am off to have another read of William Ariel's will.
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