Help with an impossible task please in Australia.

[Langley Vale Sue]

I think this is an impossible task, but if anyone can solve it you can :)

Now solved, thanks to Mary, Kite & Merry :)

My 93 year old mother-in-law had a 1st cousin who was born in Australia and who came over on a visit 'years ago'! I think it was probably in the 1930s or 1940s, but not during the war. Actually in 1957.

M-i-L's aunt, (Edith) Gertrude Williams [born 1884 in Wardington, Oxfordshire to Elizabeth & James Williams] emigrated to Australia (she thinks) before WW1. She married 'on board ship' on her way to Australia. (I think a pinch of salt is needed here!) Marriage found in Birmingham, England in 1912!
M-i-L can't remember the name of the person Gertie married, nor where they lived in Australia, but she remembers they had a daughter called Dot who she used to exchange Christmas cards with. I do have a photo somewhere of 'Dot' as a child which was sent to 'Aunt Nell', M-i-L's mother. I would say she was born around 1910. There is no listing for Dot in M-i-L's address book. M-i-L says she hasn't heard from Dot for 'years & years'.

I have recently come across a letter addressed to my M-i-L dated 14 Feb 2000 from a firm of solicitors regarding the death of another cousin, Ethel Wade, who died intestate in England in 1999. Attached to this letter is a brief family tree detailing the 6 siblings of Gertrude Williams and some of their descendants. There are a few errors regarding names and addresses so I imagine the details came from other cousins of the deceased Ethel. I don't think M-i-L has had contact with any cousins in England for at least 40 years. My OH & his brother don't ever remember meeting any.
This tree gives details of the unmarried daughter of Gertrude Webb living at Merrim Road, Oakleigh, 3166 Victoria, Australia. I have looked on maps and can't find 'Merrim Road' listed in Oakleigh. Can anyone find this address please or the correct transcription?

I have been looking on ancestry's UK Incoming Passenger Lists but haven't found anyone that may be Dot on her visit to England. Now found

On Find My Past I think I have found Gertie Williams departing for Sydney, Australia on the "Marathon" on 27 February 1913. Also on board is a Henry Webb. I don't have enough credits left to investigate this further. :( Wrong people, now found correct emigrations

Are Australian BMDs online so I can look for the marriage and/or Dot's birth. If I have the right Gertie and Mr Webb can I try to find their deaths online? Deaths & cremation dates now found.

Just writing this down makes me see this is an almost impossible quest, but thanks for reading my ramblings :)

[Merry]

So, I'm just clarifying....

This person:

My 93 year old mother-in-law had a 1st cousin who was born in Australia

is Dot, who might be Dorothy Webb, the daughter of (Edith) Gertrude Williams and the man she may have married on the ship, Henry Webb. Doesn't that make it that Dot isn't your mo-in-law's first cousin, but 1st cousin once removed? I'm only checking in case the person mentioned in the above quote isn't Dot and I've got confused!

[Langley Vale Sue]

Sorry if I didn't make it very clear - that's how confused I am. :D

They were 1st cousins. Gertie (Dot's mother) was the sister of my M-i-L's mother (Ellen Amelia Williams, known as Nell).

[Merry]

Ah, sorry, my fault, I read

M-i-L's great aunt, (Edith) Gertrude Williams [born 1884

for some reason, when the 'great' wasn't there!

Not sure I can actually help! pmsl!

[Langley Vale Sue]

Oh sorry Merry :( I did put great aunt but thought I'd altered it before anyone saw it!
You were too quick :D

[Merry]

pmsl!!

I've just done a death search on Vic BMDs

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria&queryIdParam=8619072&pageNoParam=1

for Edith Gertrude Webb between 1910 and 1970 with father's surname Williams, first name James and mother's first name Elizabeth, and there's one match!

[Merry]

Having refined my search, it would seem Edith Gertrude Webb died in 1956.

[Langley Vale Sue]

Oooh thanks Merry. Off to investigate.

[Merry]

They only have births up to 1909 so can't look for Dorothy's birth.

If I look for Webb deaths with mother's maiden surname Williams there are three matches between 1910 and 1985, but none of those seem to be called Dorothy. I'm not sure how flexible this search is, not having used it before, so don't know if it can cope with finding middle names or whatever.

[Merry]

If I look for Webb deaths with mother's maiden surname Williams there are three matches between 1910 and 1985

Not only are none of these called Dorothy, but also if I add that the mother's forename was Edith or Gertrude or Edith Gertrude they say there's no matches.

[Langley Vale Sue]

Thank you Merry.
I'm assuming (dangerous I know :D) that Dot was still alive in 2000 when the solicitor's letter was written. Unfortunately M-i-L gets very mixed up nowadays, especially with dates, but I think I remember Christmas cards from Dot to my parents-in-law at least until my father-in-law died in 1993. I could be wrong though - it's living with M-i-L that does it :D

[Merry]

Ah right, so Dot b about 1910-1915ish, never married and not dead when the indexes run out in 1985, so she doesn't show up. You need the Aussie electoral rolls, but I don't have access to those as I have the wrong Ancestry sub!

[Mary from Italy]

The online Aus electoral rolls only go up to 1954.

In 1954, Edith Gertrude Webb, home duties (ie. housewife) and Doris Gertrude Webb, stenographer, were living at 36 Millewa Avenue, SE10, Victoria. Electoral district: Henty, sub-district: Malvern East. No other Webbs at that address. The elec. rolls are indexed by surname, so I don't know if there was anyone else with another surname living with them.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=%22millewa%20avenue%22%20victoria%20australia&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[Mary from Italy]

In 1914, Edith Gertrude Webb, home duties, and Charles Webb, lithographer, were living at 1 Myrtle Street, South Yarra, Victoria. No other Webbs listed at that address.

In 1919, the same couple are at 24 Mason Steet, South Yarra.

In 1931, Edith Gertrude Webb is living at Millewa av., Victoria, and Charles Webb, lithographer, is at Millewa gr., Victoria. No idea what the abbreviation means, or if they were at the same address.

In 1936 and 1937 Charles is still at Millewa gr., Victoria , and Doris Gertrude Webb, milliner, is living with Edith at Millewa av..

In 1942 all three are listed at 36 Millewa Avenue, so they were probably together in the previous elec. rolls too.

In 1949, only Charles and Edith are at that address - can't see Doris.

The missing years are due to the fact that Ancestry only has selected years in its database.

[kiterunner]

Edith Gertrude Webb is on her own on the 1931 e roll (unless there is someone with another surname) and Doris Gertrude is with her in 1936, if that's any help.

[kiterunner]

Oh, and if you haven't already had a free trial of Australian findmypast you could try on there:
http://www.findmypast.com.au/index.php

I've already had my free trial so I can't look properly, but the free search doesn't look as though there is anything for Doris Webb in Victoria on the site.

[Langley Vale Sue]

Thank you very much Mary.
I've just found a female D.G. Webb on Ancestry's incoming passenger lists from Australia to London in August 1957 and she is a stenographer. Too much of a coincidence? Her birthdate is shown as 12 February 1913, so if this is the correct Dorothy (Dot) it looks like she was born on the ship to Australia.

Ah, just seen your 2nd post. So Gertie's husband, and presumably Dot's father, was Charles Webb.

Maybe Gertie was pregnant and had to 'flee' to Australia to avoid the scandal and Charles married Gertie in Oz to give the baby a name.

[kiterunner]

Googling for "Doris Gertrude Webb" Victoria, I found an Australian Red Cross document (Victorian Review 2004) which lists that name under "Legacies and Bequests":
http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/media/ARCV_Annual_Review_04.pdf

[Langley Vale Sue]

Thank you Kite, Mary & Merry for all your help.
I'll be back later to digest all the info you found for me and maybe even try to resolve the puzzle!

[Mary from Italy]

Maybe Gertie was pregnant and had to 'flee' to Australia to avoid the scandal and Charles married Gertie in Oz to give the baby a name.


Possible, although I haven't found a marriage for them in Victoria.

[Langley Vale Sue]

That's interesting Kite because, if the DG Webb I found on the passenger lists is the right one, the address in London she gave has medical connections.

Just off to cook son's dinner before he goes to work, but I'll be back later.

Thanks again.

[Mary from Italy]

The death index on Ancestry confirms that Edith Gertrude Webb, daughter of James Williams and Elizabeth Hall, died at Chad, Victoria, in 1956, aged 72.

[Mary from Italy]

Possible marriage?

Marriages Jun 1912
Webb Charles / Williams / Birmingham 6d 223
Williams Edith G / Webb / Birmingham 6d 223

[Langley Vale Sue]

Yes Mary, very possible :)
Gertie was in shown as being in service in Birmingham in 1911 census.

Thank you.

[Mary from Italy]

If you check FMP again, you'll see that Edith G Webb, domestic, aged 28, emigrated to Aus on the Otranto on 27/9/1912. She seems to be on her own. This would fit with Doris being born in Aus in early 1913.

[Mary from Italy]

Googling for "Doris Gertrude Webb" Victoria, I found an Australian Red Cross document (Victorian Review 2004) which lists that name under "Legacies and Bequests":
http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/media/ARCV_Annual_Review_04.pdf


Which suggests that Doris died about 2004.

[Merry]

Possible marriage?

Marriages Jun 1912
Webb Charles / Williams / Birmingham 6d 223
Williams Edith G / Webb / Birmingham 6d 223

Don't forget, if that's the marriage then the passenger list you mentioned at the start won't be her as Gertie Williams!

I have a Doris in my tree who was called Dot, so I shouldn't have assumed Dot was a Dorothy!!

[Mary from Italy]

It looks as though Charles emigrated on the Otranto on 7/6/1912.

[Langley Vale Sue]

Thank you again. Just popping in between basting the spuds ;) Back in a while to digest all this info :)

[Mary from Italy]

Charles died in 1950, and Doris in 2002. They and Edith are listed at Springvale Cemetery, Melbourne, under the same reference number (J6/2/34):

http://necropolis.net.au/necropolis/

[Langley Vale Sue]

Thank you Mary, Kite and Merry for all your help. You are all wonderful :)

From knowing next to nothing about M-i-L's cousin at 2pm, now at 8pm I have her date & place of birth, the first name of her father and her parents marriage and date of their emigration to Australia, and the deaths and cremation dates of her parents and Dot herself. I even have addresses for them from the electoral rolls.

I cannot praise you enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you. :D

[Mary from Italy]

You're very welcome :)

Australian research is fascinating - you can often make very quick progress like that.

[Mary from Italy]

By the way I gave you the wrong Google maps reference earlier; this is the correct one (and it's near Oakleigh):

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=%22millewa%20avenue%22%20victoria%20australia&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl