Thomas Dudley - Spain

[Mark Dudley]

New start ad all I thought I'd throw this one in again ...

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=WARHO107_2066_2066-0853&fn=Thomas&ln=Dudley&st=r&ssrc=&pid=9364520

Thomas Dudley is shown as b Spain British Subject in 1851. That makes him born abt 1767. Can anybody come up with a way to find out where/why/how he might have been born in Spain?

1841 shows him born in Warwickshire. He died 1852.

[Merry]

I would have thought the most likely reason for him being born in Spain would be that his father served in the army and was posted there - wives often went too.

Is this person his son/cousin/younger brother? (TNA, The Catalogue)

WO 121/110/180

JOHN DUDLEY Born FOLESHILL, Warwickshire Served in 24th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 18 after 4 years 5 months of service Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge.

1806-1810

I just wondered if members of the same family might have served in the same regiment. Probably a long shot!

[Margaret in Burton]

wooohooooooooo

Merry on a research thread again.

*sorry I'll go away now, got a bit carried away*

[Merry]

Passes medicinal brandy!

I can't find 'your' Owen Stone!

[Margaret in Burton]

Passes medicinal brandy!

I can't find 'your' Owen Stone!

Kate found him

[Merry]

Oh good!

[Mark Dudley]

Yes Merry. John (my favour ancestor!) was Thomas's son, and my 3 x great-grandfather. I'll look into the 24th Foot. John served at Talavera you know! (Proud emoticon!)

[Merry]

*feels an educational shortcoming approaching*

[Mark Dudley]

Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talavera

[Mark Dudley]

Apparently the 24th were in Minorca in 1756: "During the Seven Years War, the regiment was part of the garrison on Minorca and surrendered to the French on June 28."

Doesn't really help though!

[Mark Dudley]

Just discovered that the 24th were in Gibraltar 1764-1769. (He was born 1767) Was it Spanish or British then?

[Merry]

Britain!

Treaty of Utrecht 11 April 1713

and no, I didn't remember that from school!

[Mark Dudley]

Bother! And the Parish records for Foleshill have a useful gap 1753 - 1780, just in case he was lying!

[kiterunner]

Are there no Bishops Transcripts for those years?

[Mark Dudley]

Morning Kate! (Novice status showing here) How do I find that out?

[Merry]

THis looks useful:

http://www.bmsgh.org/parish/warw/tyaiw/foleshill.html


They seem to be at the Lichfield Joint Record Office.

[Mark Dudley]

I've just checked again on my CovFHS transcription CD. They have a Thomas Dudley baptised 30/10/1760 to Thomas and Mary (Carpenter or Carpender). The marriage of Thos and Mary was 31/10/1757.

But if he was baptised 1760 he would have been 90+ in 1851 which seems good going. If the Spain thing is true he may be a completely different Thomas!. His death cert shows 86 at time of death in 1852.

[Merry]

I see a couple of people have him as the son of Thomas and Mary (nee Carpenter) on Ancestry, with all the other children b in Folehill or no birthplace.

Your Thomas would be the youngest if he was their son, which makes the likelyhood of him being born in Spain AND being their child seem even more unlikely.

I think he belongs to someone else! lol (that's helpful!!)

[Merry]

Oh, just noticed the dates in your last post. The Ancestry tree had an awful lot of children in that gap between the marriage and Thomas' birth!

[Mark Dudley]

One of the children was Elizabeth b 1765. She married Abraham Jephcott of Foleshill in 1785 at St Lawrence, Foleshill. The witnesses were Elizth and Wm Carpenter and John Hutchison - ties in with mother`s relations. Also Elizth Jephcott later witnessed the marriage of John Dudley to Sushannah Burton in 1807.

That John is Thomas Dudley's (who dies 1852) son who you found before. The more I think about it the more sure I am that the Spain thing is a red herring.

[Merry]

I don't know if you had looked at the Army Overseas Birth Indexes which are supposed to have records as early as 1761? I just looked, but there was nothing anywhere near that early for any Dudley!

[Mark Dudley]

I didn't know there were any such indices!

[Merry]

That John is Thomas Dudley's (who dies 1852) son who you found before. The more I think about it the more sure I am that the Spain thing is a red herring.

Maybe it is, but what about him losing all those years? His 1841/1851 and death entries all match for age. Have you looked for possible deaths for the 1760 Thomas in case he died and Mary Carpenter had another son?

[Merry]

Maybe you could try contacting the person with the Ancestry tree to see what they think?

[Merry]

I didn't know there were any such indices!

:rolleyes: They are on Find My Past along with the other overseas BMDs :D

[Mark Dudley]

I've just done that Merry. The Sidwell connection is through one of John's eldest daughter Sarah. I have a feeling we've been in touch before.

[Mark Dudley]

Thanks for the ideas Merry. I promise I'll not inflict Thomas Dudley on you again for a while!

[Merry]

*breathes sigh of relief* :rolleyes:

[Mark Dudley]

Actually ....

I've just found the burial of a widow Elizabeth Dudley, buried 13 September 1812.

She is probably Elizabeth Chew who married Thomas Dudley 17/10/1796. The only Thomas burial I can find that seems to fit is 18/3/1804.

Trouble is .... I don't know who that Thomas was! So he might be the 1760 chap which would mean that I'm not connected to the Carpenters at all!

[kiterunner]

Have you tried looking for any Dudley wills that might mention any of these people, Mark?

[Mark Dudley]

I have Kate. Mary Carpenter's father left a will which mentions her as Mary Dudley (she got £10!), and two of her daughters (Elizabeth and Ann) were apprenticed as silk weavers, but nothing concrete beyond that.

The Carpenters and Jephcotts appear to have been two of the more affluent families in the village at the time. The Dudleys seem to have been less influential, although a 1930s housing development did have a Dudley Street which may have hearkened back to them.

[Merry]

Mark, I remember in 1851 THomas was grandfather to the head. Was he therefore the last person in the household listed? Have you checked the head of the next household wasn't born in Spain, by looking for him/her on the next census? I have a family where the head's place of birth has been missed and all the following places of birth are one space up the sheet from where they should be! Bit of a long shot for you, I must admit!

OC inadvertently reminded my of this when she said (in 'Spare a thought for' on this board) her Mary Jepson was recorded as a tailor, but it was crossed through (because the person listed after Mary was the one with this occ!)