Richard Thomas Whittle (MMMF)

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

I would be grateful if you could find Richard in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census.

He was born in St Pancras in September 1842 to James and Elizabeth.

He married Naomi Parr in 1864 in Greenwich. I have this cert.

He died in Paddington in March 1899 aged 57. I have this cert.

I have him and his family on the census: 1881- 1911. But he and his family have vanished after his birth until his daughter (my Great Grandmother) was born.

Many Thanks

[kiterunner]

Fi, it's father's father's father's mother this week. Would you like this moved to the Research board?

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

sorry, yes please. I just saw the 2 x Great Grandparent title. I must be tired or just getting used to my new reading glasses.

[kiterunner]

Okay, just so we have some info to start from, this is the marriage cert from ancestry:
St Alphege, Greenwich, Kent Oct 3 1864
Richard Whittle, full age, bachelor, Groom, residence Greenwich, father James Whittle, painter
Naomi Parr, minor, spinster, residence Greenwich, father James Parr, brewer
Witnesses William Drayton and Rebecca Drayton.

Baptism at St Pancras Old Church 9 Oct 1842:
Richard Thomas, son of James and Elizabeth Whittle of Union Street, painter, born 10 Septr.

Other baptisms are James Robert 15 Jan 1841 and Alfred 11 Feb 1844.

[kiterunner]

And looking at baptisms of Richard and Naomi's children, there is a Henry baptised 1 Nov 1868 at St Mark, Marylebone, residence 10 Hamilton Mews, father's occupation Groom, and then Alice Maud baptised 5th Feb 1871 at St Stephen the Martyr Hampstead, residence 45 Henry Street, occupation Coachman. Then Agnes 6th Jul 1873 at St Stephen Paddington, residence 14 Westbourne Park Mews, coachman. So we have a few places to look.


(Waaiiitt.... my 2xg-grandparents got married at St Stephen in Hampstead in 1876 and I've never seen the original marriage certificate on ancestry. I thought they didn't have that church!)

[kiterunner]

Okay, found them in 1871; Ancestry has them listed as Midgley :rolleyes: I'll put in a correction.
Henry Street, Marylebone:
Richard Whittle Head Mar 28 Coachman Midx Pancras
Maria Wife Mar 24 Suffolk New Market
Alfred Son 6 Midx St Georges
Ann Dau 4 Do Pimlico
Henry Son 2 Do Marylebone
Alice Dau 3 mo Do Do
Eliza Pitfold(?) Niece Unmar 18 Suffolk Newmarket
Albert E Westlake Boarder 5 Midx Broughton

Ref is RG10/185 Folio 51 Page 30
And yes, it really does say "Maria" on the image; I suppose the enumerator misread it on the householder's form.

[kiterunner]

I'll have to stop for the night, but just in case you haven't seen it, Richard's brother James Robert Whittle married Eliza Carr in 1867 and Richard and Naomi are the witnesses.

By the way, I think ancestry have their St Stephens confused as that one they list as Hampstead is actually Marylebone and the Hampstead one isn't on the site.

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

Thanks so far Kite. There is a bit of a theme here. They like to live in places called Mews. I must see if the addresses still exist.

[kiterunner]

I suppose the reason is that he was a groom or coachman, and the mews was where they kept the coaches and the horses, wasn't it?

[Sabrina]

This could possibly be him in 1851:

HO107; Piece: 1744; Folio: 258; Page: 18

Cransley Street, Broughton, Peterborough, Northamptonshire
Henry Sumpter Head, Mar, 40, Mason, Kettering, Northants
James Wittle, Lodger, 10, Scholar, St Prancas, London
Richard Wittle, Lodger, 8, Scholar, St Prancas, London

[kiterunner]

This looks like Richard's brother in 1861:
Old Red Lion Yard Stables, Newmarket, Suffolk
James Whittle Servant Unm 20 Stable Lad London.

I haven't managed to find Richard yet in 1861 but of course lots of the 1861 is missing. That certainly looks like them in 1851, Sabrina.

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

hi, sorry for delay in replying. I am at work and can only see net at lunchtime. Thanks for all your help. Looks very informative. :)

[kiterunner]

Sorry, I missed out the ref for James jr in 1861 and it's listed as Cambridgeshire so I had trouble finding it again!
RG9/1031 Folio 96 Page 9

[Phoenix]

Hmm, I can't even find the family in 1841, with baby James, when they ought to be obvious.

Is the parents' marriage on Ancestry, to see where Elizabeth Letch hailed from? (well at least age & father)

[Anne in North London]

Probable marriage for James Whittle and Elizabeth Letch


Marriages Dec 1839 (>99%)
Letch Elizabeth St Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view
Mahony James St. Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view
Percivil Charles Edmund St. Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view
SANDELL Emma St. Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view
SHANKS Mary Ann St. Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view
TOLLETT Mary St. Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view
WHITTLE James St. Pancras 1 289 Scan available - click to view

[kiterunner]

Oh yes, he's listed as Whittles on ancestry. Both full age, James is a widower, painter, Elizabeth is a spinster, residence for both I think says Union St but it's a scrawl, his father is Jas Whittle, dead, and hers is Robert Letch, dead. Witnesses Thomas Letch and Eliza Whittle.

[Phoenix]

It's on Family Search at St Pancras Old Church.

[Phoenix]

Brilliant, Kite!

Thomas Letch is in Union St in 1841 with, presumably, his widowed mother.

[Phoenix]

And Thomas is in Thrapston in 1851, still with Mum: HO107 piece 1745 folio 114 page 2

[Phoenix]

Eliza Pilfold is a red herring - daughter of George Pilfold & Sophia Parr.

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

Okay, found them in 1871; Ancestry has them listed as Midgley :rolleyes: I'll put in a correction.
Henry Street, Marylebone:
Richard Whittle Head Mar 28 Coachman Midx Pancras
Maria Wife Mar 24 Suffolk New Market
Alfred Son 6 Midx St Georges
Ann Dau 4 Do Pimlico
Henry Son 2 Do Marylebone
Alice Dau 3 mo Do Do
Eliza Pitfold(?) Niece Unmar 18 Suffolk Newmarket
Albert E Westlake Boarder 5 Midx Broughton

Ref is RG10/185 Folio 51 Page 30
And yes, it really does say "Maria" on the image; I suppose the enumerator misread it on the householder's form.


Thank you all so much. How do I find these census images now I am at home? For instance I have searched the 1871 for Richard Whittle and Richard Midgley and still havent found him. How on earth did you find him listed as Midgley Kate please? I found his brother James R Whittle on the 1871.

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

right, I found them on the 1871 using his son Henry with surname Midgley. Now I see Midgley was the surname of the previous family on the page. Thanks. Going to look at your next results and see if I can find them myself.

[Fi aka Wheelie Spice]

This could possibly be him in 1851:

HO107; Piece: 1744; Folio: 258; Page: 18

Cransley Street, Broughton, Peterborough, Northamptonshire
Henry Sumpter Head, Mar, 40, Mason, Kettering, Northants
James Wittle, Lodger, 10, Scholar, St Prancas, London
Richard Wittle, Lodger, 8, Scholar, St Prancas, London

I have found this one too. Thanks Sabrina.