What's the link?

[Tom Tom]

I am trying to find the link between these two families, as I am sure there must be one. If anyone could help, it would be very much appreciated.


John German married Susan Peake Johnson on the 18 February 1868 in Birmingham. Her father is given as Henry (IGI transcription, so no occupation given).

Susan was born in Burton On Trent on the 8th January 1839 and died in Ashby De La Zouch on the 23 May 1883.


I think there must be some connection to someone else I have in my tree.

Susan German Manners was born AMJ 1883 (the same quarter that the earlier Susan died). In Burton On Trent. Her parents were William Posnette Manners and Clara Gothard who married in 1874.
Her paternal grandparents were John Manners and Ann ? and her maternal grandparents were William James Gothard and Elizabeth ?.
The paternal grandparents were not from Burton originally, so I think if anything the link would be through her maternal grandparents.

I have been unable to find a marriage of William James Gothard to an Elizabeth in time for their first child in c1846, but there is a William Gothard marriage to Elizabeth Salloway in AMJ 1845 on FreeBMD (although he may have married someone else on the page).

Should also add that Susan Peak Johnson's christening is on the IGI, daughter of Ann Johnson. Christened 9 Jan 1839.

Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks
T

[Tom Tom]

Got to rush out now, but will be back later.

Just to say I have found her in 1861 as Susan Johnson Neake, a visitor in Buckinghamshire, but at first glance doesn't look like family.

[Tom Tom]

Also just to say, there is a JFM marriage of Ann Johnson to Henry Peak in Burton.

They are here in 1841

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=susan&gsln=&sx=&f1=&f2=&f3=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1839&rs_81004011__date=2&_82004011=&_82004013=&f7=&f20=&f8=&f9=&gskw=burton&prox=1&db=uki1841&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=1841UKI&fh=27&h=13696247&recoff=1

[Margaret in Burton]

I have to go out very soon too.

Not read it properly as yet but can pop down to the library sometime to check anything out if need be.

[Margaret in Burton]

Gothard is quite a well known name in Burton.

There is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Gothard

http://www.burtongrammar.co.uk/?cat=82

Gothard House is the head quarters of the Burton Conservative party

[ElizabethHerts]

Interestingly there is no father given on this record (Family Search Pilot site):

Name: Susan Peak Johnson
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Jan 1839
Baptism/Christening Place: BURTON UPON TRENT,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Ann Johnson
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03333-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 426512
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

[Tom Tom]

Thanks Marg and Elizabeth.

I really feel there has to be a link in there somewhere! Just got to find it.

A Manners did marry a German later on, but not until 1910.

Marg - that reminds me, I wanted to ask you about cemeteries in Burton. Is there just one main one or lots of smaller ones? I have lots of off shoots and branches from the area that it would be worth having a wander around there at some point!

[Tom Tom]

Oo, think I may have solved it!

Looks like Henry Peake died in AMJ 1843 and there is possibly an Anne Peake marrying John Manners in JFM 1844.

I'll be back.

Yes! Think this is it. Found them in 1851 with Susan Peake JohnsEn.

Now I just have to link this Manners to my Manners and we're done :)

[Tom Tom]

Done it :D

Ann Peake married John Manners who was the Father of William Posnette Manners meaning that William Posnette Manners and Susan Peake Johnson (later Susan German) were half brother and sister.

Phew!

It works to put it all down in one place and work through it! :)

[Tom Tom]

Just seen her first and third marriage on Staffs BMD. The third marriage lists her under Johnson and Manners (they would have got Johnson from her father's name).

So that is all good news and ties everything together nicely. She married in the same church (St Modwen) for marriages number one and number three, but apparently not for number two.

I'm very happy tonight now I have managed to solve something. (and pushed my post count up by a bit on here! LOL)

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Marg and Elizabeth.

I really feel there has to be a link in there somewhere! Just got to find it.

A Manners did marry a German later on, but not until 1910.

Marg - that reminds me, I wanted to ask you about cemeteries in Burton. Is there just one main one or lots of smaller ones? I have lots of off shoots and branches from the area that it would be worth having a wander around there at some point!

http://www.eaststaffsbc.gov.uk/Services/Pages/CemeteriesStapenhillRolleston.aspx

Stapenhill cemetery is huge. You used to be able to search the records yourself, Dave did so a few years ago, now they charge.

Of course there are loads of church graveyards as well.

Only just got back in so I haven't read all of this thread, where did they live? I do know which churches have graveyards and which don't.

If you pay a visit, give me a yell and I'll come with you.

[Margaret in Burton]

Oo, think I may have solved it!

Looks like Henry Peake died in AMJ 1843 and there is possibly an Anne Peake marrying John Manners in JFM 1844.

I'll be back.

Yes! Think this is it. Found them in 1851 with Susan Peake JohnsEn.

Now I just have to link this Manners to my Manners and we're done :)

Manners

Also well known name. There is a Manners estate in Winshill. Manners was one of the directors of Bass Brewery

[Margaret in Burton]

Just read the thread properly.

St Modwens is the main Parish church in the market place. There is a small graveyard there, most of the graves were taken up and reburied for the garden of rememberence 1939-1945. What is left is locked and would need permission to access, unless you fancy swimming the Trent to get to it. :D They are quite old graves though.

St Modwens records are in the library, so I can look anything up you may need.

[Uncle John]

Isn't Manners the family name of the Duke of Devonshire?

[Tom Tom]

Thanks Marg - yes my Manners were the Manners from the brewery.

William Posnette Manners rose from Office boy to Director, and left over half a million pounds in his will in the 1920s. Not bad going.

Thanks for the offer re the cemetery, I will take you up on that at some point. No idea when it will be though as I am booked up for the considerable future. Probably be a Saturday in November, or even into the New Year now. :(

Yes, the Winshill Manners estate is where their house "The Highlands" was. It had twenty rooms on the 1911 census. I wonder if any archive is likely to have a photo of old Directors of the Brewery?

Certainly got some stuff to think about :)

[Margaret in Burton]

http://www.nationalbrewerycentre.co.uk/forthcoming-events-in-burton-staffordshire-midlands.htm

Used to be the Bass Museum.

My FIL knew Manners personally.

I reckon there should be some stuff in the library.

[Margaret in Burton]

You don't really want to visit the Manners estate. Bit rough.

[Margaret in Burton]

Isn't Manners the family name of the Duke of Devonshire?

Just googled. It looks like a Manners was a Duke of Rutland

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Marg - yes my Manners were the Manners from the brewery.

William Posnette Manners rose from Office boy to Director, and left over half a million pounds in his will in the 1920s. Not bad going.

Thanks for the offer re the cemetery, I will take you up on that at some point. No idea when it will be though as I am booked up for the considerable future. Probably be a Saturday in November, or even into the New Year now. :(

Yes, the Winshill Manners estate is where their house "The Highlands" was. It had twenty rooms on the 1911 census. I wonder if any archive is likely to have a photo of old Directors of the Brewery?

Certainly got some stuff to think about :)

That's fine with me. My daughter gets married 2 weeks on Saturday so I'll need some breathing space after that.

[Tom Tom]

I'll take your word for it, don't think I would really want to visit if their house isn't there anymore.

Thanks for the link - I have emailed them to ask about any records they might have about WPM, or if they know if there is a photograph anywhere.

Do you know if the library have the records for Trinity Methodist Church Marg? A lot of the Manners got married there.

If you are planning a trip to the library and wouldn't mind checking a couple of things for me I would be very grateful :)

[Tom Tom]

That's fine with me. My daughter gets married 2 weeks on Saturday so I'll need some breathing space after that.

Congratulations! My cousin got married three weeks ago and it was a great event, and the weather was good as well. Fingers crossed your daughter's goes as well as my cousin's did.

[Margaret in Burton]

Don't know Tom. I'll email them and ask. You do mean the Methodist and not Holy Trinity Church?

I do know the Methodist records are a bit neglected. I looked at them years ago and was disappointed.

This is the church, it's in George St, just round the corner from the brewery. Holy Trinity has been demolished, it's Aldi now.

http://www.burtoncircuit.org.uk/trinity/trinity.html

[Margaret in Burton]

I've sent the library an email.

When you visit we can take a look at the brewery museum. I haven't been yet since it reopened.