Break through in my Irish wall, but what next? [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

WendyPusey

11-08-10, 20:25

I have just found my Great Grandmother's sister Maria Cope, on the 1901 and 1911 census. That's good because it now gives me a dob for her (1862) and that she was born in England, and not Dublin as the rest of her siblings.

Problem No.1. But where in England?:confused:

Living with her in 1911 is her mother, my GG Grandmother!!!! Maria Cope (nee Lismore/Lismone). All I knew about her before was that her father was James, a labourer, (from her marriage to John Cope). I now know that she was born c1835 in England. Found her on the 1901 census and again she states England.

Problem No.2. But where in England?:confused:

I've had a look for any possibles, but haven't really found anything.

Any suggestions or help in finding them.

Nell

11-08-10, 20:48

What a fantastic find, your g x 3 grandmother! By 1901 all my gt x 3 grandmas were dead and by 1911 I only had one living gt x 2 grandmother (3 of them died before they were 40).

When did Maria Lis* marry John Cope and where?

WendyPusey

11-08-10, 20:50

They were married in Queenstown, Co. Cork in 1857.

Think I may have one too many Greats in there.

Nell

11-08-10, 21:03

So sometime between 1835-1857 she was in England and sometime after 1857 but before 1901 she returned. Were her children born in Ireland? Just trying to ensure I don't look on a census for her when she was definitely in Ireland!

kiterunner

11-08-10, 22:31

Have you got the names of the witnesses from Maria and John's wedding, Wendy?

samesizedfeet

11-08-10, 22:43

Wendy

can you post up details of the rest of the siblings and when they were born in DUblin so we can narrow down when they may have been in ENgland, please

garstonite

12-08-10, 08:11

Hiya Wendy....Cope is in Liverpool from 1720`s and I may be wrong but I think it was from around Prescot / Warrington area prior to that....The actor Kenneth Cope is from a large family in Liverpool...AND Liverpool is across the water from Ireland ...it is actually nicknamed `the capital of Ireland` because so so many came to Liverpool during the potatoe famine....be back soon....allan

316 records on http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html for the Cope family in Lancashire area .....allan

WendyPusey

12-08-10, 09:18

All I can tell you is that they had 6 children. The 1st two were born in Queenstown, Co. Cork, (1858 & 1860). Maria says she was born 1862 England. My Great Grandmother was born in 1864 in Dublin, and the last two girls were also born in Dublin, (1866 & 1868) I have the 3 Dublin birth certificates.

The witnesses on the marriage certificate were Eliza Diance? & Edward Speatman. John Cope was a Royal Marine & both gave Queenstown as their address.

Nell

12-08-10, 09:39

So following marriage in 1857 it seems they went to England for Maria to be born 1862/3 and then back in 1864 to Dublin for your gt gran to be born where they stayed till at least 1868.

How sure are you that Maria was born 1862/3 in England? Have you looked for birth cert in the GRO indexes?

WendyPusey

12-08-10, 09:41

I don't know for certain when Maria was born. The info comes from the 1901 & 1911 Census return for Dublin.

I have tried to find a birth but there are about 4 it could be and i can't find them on any census to eliminate them!

Sue from Southend

12-08-10, 16:41

Have sent you a pm.

Sue from Southend

12-08-10, 16:49

WendyPusey

12-08-10, 16:52

Ah well, never mind Sue. Will have to keep looking.

garstonite

13-08-10, 07:22

Not sure if that record I sent you is the right one now as this looks like the family in 1861
and all the children were b in Staffs.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsln=cope&f1=Staffordshire&f2=west+bromwich&rs_81004011__date=0&prox=1&db=uki1861&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=6&h=20458045&recoff=2

See what you think!

I am not an expert but Clyde,and Lossiemouth in Scotland ,Poole ,Portsmouth , Plymouth and Liverpool are known to have Royal Marine bases...all sea ports ...I can`t see a Royal Marine being in Staffs,I suppose it is possible but I would have thought unlikely....allan:)

garstonite

13-08-10, 07:35

Hiya Wendy....purely speculation but of the 4 Maria Cope births from 1862 to 1864 there is
1 in West Bromwich inland
1 in Wolverhampton inland
1 in Hinckley inland

1 in St Ives coastal

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=royal+marines+st+ives&FORM=IGRE&qpvt=royal+marines+st+ives#

looks like there is or was a base in St Ives , so maybe the arrow is pointing towards the birth of Maria Cope b mar qtr 1862 St Ives 3b 278 ..what do you think ?.....allan:)

WendyPusey

13-08-10, 11:03

I can't find the one born in St. Ives on any census, so can't eliminate her yet.

I have found a Maria Cope born 1861, East Stonehouse, Devon and also a Maria Lisseyman (Lessman) born 1835 East Stonhouse, Devon with father James which might fit. East Stonehouse is near Plymouth, so that fits with what Allan was saying, and Maria's surname on two of the daughters birth certificates are Lesyam and Lismeymone.

Can't find Maria Cope on any census and Maria lesseyman only on the 1841 and 1851 census.

Caroline

14-08-10, 06:42

1 in St Ives coastal

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=royal+marines+st+ives&FORM=IGRE&qpvt=royal+marines+st+ives#

looks like there is or was a base in St Ives , so maybe the arrow is pointing towards the birth of Maria Cope b mar qtr 1862 St Ives 3b 278 ..what do you think ?.....allan:)

Just a minor detail, but that is the St Ives in landlocked Huntingdonshire. :)

WendyPusey

14-08-10, 09:06

I'm still inclined to go for the East Stonehouse, Devon one. See my post ~16.

Right next door to Plymouth and Maria's husband was a Royal Marine and the father of the Maria I found on the census was a Greewich Pensioner, also Navy.

Durham Lady

15-08-10, 06:49

Wendy, just to say one of my g g aunt's was living in East Stonehouse in the 1860/70's as both her husbands were with the Army based in Plymouth so I think you are correct and that is the birth to go for if you want to take a bet on a certificate.

WendyPusey

15-08-10, 08:27

I have ordered the certificate for the East Stonehouse one. Let's hope it's right one, otherwise it's £9.25 wasted!

Uncle John

15-08-10, 21:25

I have ordered the certificate for the East Stonehouse one. Let's hope it's right one, otherwise it's £9.25 wasted!

Think of it as a sound investment in your research. Repeat after me: "Negative information is a positive step forward."

WendyPusey

18-08-10, 17:56

Someone has just found the baptism for Maria Lissiman in 1835 and her father was a Royal Marine. As Maria's husband was also a Royal Marine, it looks very promising indeed.

WendyPusey

21-08-10, 08:53

Certificate received today and YES it is the right one. Yay!!!!!! Lots more info to add to my tree!!!http://www.familytreeforum.com/images/smilies/pidgin/default/smile-big.pnghttp://www.familytreeforum.com/images/smilies/pidgin/default/smile-big.pnghttp://www.familytreeforum.com/images/smilies/pidgin/default/smile-big.pnghttp://www.familytreeforum.com/images/smilies/pidgin/default/smile-big.pnghttp://www.familytreeforum.com/images/smilies/pidgin/default/smile-big.png Pays to listen to your instincts.

My brick wall has just crumbled to dust.......however, Maria Lissiman's mother was born in Ireland, and I haven't found her maiden name yet, so that's another brick wall to break down. http://www.familytreeforum.com/images/smilies/pidgin/default/confused.png