View Full Version : Is it possible its her child ?
Would you think its likely a woman born in 1883 to have a child in 1940????
I am 99.9% sure its my rellies child ,as the maiden name of the Mother isnt that common and nor is the surname of the Father I think she married.;(
I would say, if she could get away with it, it was far more likely to be her grand-child.
Blinkety flip, if I had a child at that age I'd book myself into the looney bin.
maggie_4_7
29-07-10, 19:08
oooh dodgy 57 have you got her year of birth right.
My nan was born in 1888 her last child was born in 1935 as an example so she was 47!
It is more likely to be a daughters child I think.
she was definitely born in 1883 in Stoke Newington have her birth cert ,she married in Stoke Newington in 1931 ??? had a child in 1933 another in 1934 then this one in 1940 ? if its her ????
I did think its a bit old ?
would you think its pushing it then for the other two to be hers ?
She must have died by now. Do you have her death and is she the right age?
I'd bet she had a neice or daughter or cousin with the same name.
there were quite a few daughters with that name ?? in the families. thanks Phoenix given me food for thought
Uncle John
29-07-10, 20:15
I agree, I think it's two different people.
thanks Uncle John you would have thought with a name like Miriam Guttentag that wasn't possible?
Also my one is the only Miriam Guttentag I can find ??who fits the name and area ??
I was going to ask if she was too old for a menopause baby but if she had 3 late children that does change things. Do you have the certs?
What was her maiden name?
is this the marriage?
Marriages Mar 1931
Guttentag Miriam Lunzer Harry
Stoke N'ton 1b 465
yes thats the marriage Jess its the right area for my Miriam she was born in Stoke Newington ?
I dont have the certs yet no Kit was trying to prove or disprove it a bit first
Would the LMA records on Ancestry be worth looking at?
hi Diane this marriage was in 1931 so too late for them.
That's a shame I know some of it goes later than that..
Some other Qs to ask yourself!
When were they doing in Northumberland/Durham?
Why don't either Miriam or Harry seem to have died?
Is the 1931 groom Henry Chaim Lunzer b Islington 1897?
I'd be worried about there being another marriage for a Harry Lunzer in Hampstead in 1942. Is this the same Harry and if it is, what happened to Miriam and did this Harry ever leave London?
The 1942 marriage is for Lance Corporal Harry Lunzer son of Mr and Mrs Ernest Lunzer of Alexandria. (The Times)
I found this on Rootsweb:
2. Miriam Guttentag (Hanna Kranz1) was born 20 AUG 1903 in Gateshead, and died 04 MAR 1986 in Jerusalem. She married Harry Lunzer 01 JAN 1931 in London, son of Julius Lunzer and Fanny Ratzersdorfer. He was born 01 NOV 1897 in London, and died 20 FEB 1987 in Jerusalem.
plus:
1. Hanna Kranz. She married Yisrael Guttentag in UK.
Child of Hanna Kranz and Yisrael Guttentag is:+ 2 i. Miriam Guttentag was born 20 AUG 1903 in Gateshead, and died 04 MAR 1986 in Jerusalem.
I've not found anyone called Miriam being born in Gateshead in 1903, never mind the right surname! I thought maybe you would know if those parents were to do with your Miriam (if she lied about her age?)
Dying in Jerusalem would explain the lack of death registrations!
UPDATE:
Just found the following marriage which looks like the parents of the possible 'other' Miriam:
Marriages Jun 1897
Guttentag Israel Gateshead 10a 1552a
Kranz Chanti Gateshead 10a 1552a
Hmmm....I thought this was a boy:
Births Dec 1903
Guttentag Sanwel Newcastle T. 10b 19
and he is Samuel in 1911.
I'm definitely looking at the correct family for those parents, Israel and Hanna/Chanti (she is down as Annie in 1911!) as her mother, Judith Kranz, is in the household.
So, who is Miriam if she is their daughter?
The children include Benjamin aged 9 (reg 1901) and Samuel aged 7 (reg 1903) but there's also a 'Mary' aged 8 for whom I can't find a birth reg. Samuel's birth reg is for the right time frame for the date given by the Rootsweb person, but maybe Mary on the 1911 was aka Miriam and was born in August 1902 not 1903?
Gawd merry you have been busy how do you find this stuff ??? thanks very much, thats interesting as my Abraham Isaac Guttentag ??? remember him ??? had a Brother Israel ??? we think his Brother came over here with him ? so that could be his Son ?
These Guttentags drive me nuts I have a new contact who tells me that the Son Hyam who called himself Alfred changed his name again to Henry sometime after or before his second marriage.
Thanks very much am going to copy and paste this info and have a looksy .
The husband in the 1911 census was:
Israel Guttentag, aged 38, b Austria (Nat British Subject) occ drapery traveller
Val, what name is your Miriam to be found under on the 1891 amd 1901 census? EDIT - was she abroad?
Are Hyam David Guttentag and Rebecca Cohen the parents of your Miriam? Why are they getting married (the first time!) in the C of E?????????? lol
maggie_4_7
31-07-10, 13:45
WOW Merry is good..
I've just been reading about Alfred and Rebecca Rose (aka Hyam and Rebecca Guttentag) and the second daughter, Annie, b Mexico/Boston Massachusetts. I don't know how anyone could know if the Boston birth record was for the same child as Annie b Mexico on the 1901 UK census?
Maybe your Miriam died abroad?
How come Alfred Rose says he is unmarried in 1881?
Maybe I don't wish to know the answers to any of these questions???!!!!!!!!!! lol
Margaret in Burton
31-07-10, 14:12
WOW Merry is good..
Merry is brilliant, she's one of the reasons that if you need research help you should post on GF.
Margaret in Burton
31-07-10, 14:16
Stop it you two! lol :o
Why??
You're a GF treasure :):)
Merry you are wonderful
Merry your right you dont want to know ???????? even I dont LOL.
My Miriam was born 27 Sep 1883 in Stoke Newington to Hyam David and Rebecca Cohen, the family then went to Massachussettes,I cannot find this Miriam anywhere after her birth ? they had another daughter Annie ??? in Massachusettes who was sent back here in 1894 I have not traced her yet other than the 1901 census where she is with her grandparents ,Rebecca the mother died out there and Hyam/Alfred/Henry came back and married a Harriett Hooper ONCE lol
Told you !!!!
Dont worry anymore let me sort out what you have found thanks very much .
maggie_4_7
31-07-10, 16:12
Why??
You're a GF treasure :):)
She is and thats a fact that even herself can't get away from it :p
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.