Family Bell, Livepool

[alisondaviesbell]

Hi All i am sitting here with my grandfather in law,
we are trying to find his parents and grandparents, etc.....

I have searched on the 1911 census and found his dad Tom Bell, living with his mother Hannah Bell in Robsats Street Liverpool on this census he is 4 years old.

i then searched the 1901 census and found Hannah Bell living in Lancaster street Kirkdale,

however her husband doens't appear anywhere on either census and i am wondering how best to find him? i know that i should look for a birth Cert for Tom as this would give me his parents names however i wondered if anyone would be able to find him without this information.....

Thanks
Alison x

[Merry]

Did Hannah say how long she had been married in 1911?

Do you know of any more children born after the 1911 census? If Hannah had more and they could be positively identified in the birth indexes, they would have the mother's maiden name indexed also.

[Merry]

How sure are you that you are looking at the right Tom Bell? As you don't know his father's name, are you sure of his mother's name and his date/place of birth? I see his birth was most likely registered as Thomas and there are an awful lot of Thomas Bells!

[Merry]

I presume you don't have a copy of his marriage cert?

[alisondaviesbell]

Hi Merry,
my grandfather in law knew all his dads brothers and sisters and the names and ages all match what he remembers,
so i am 99.9% sure we have the right family....
in 1911, Hannah had been married for 19 years......

no as yet i have no certs will look for them aswell

do you think its possible to find anything more from what i have told you about the name of Toms father?

[Merry]

Not if you are thinking of taking the tree back further!! It's too risky - you don't want to put time and money into the wrong tree! lol

No younger children then?

Do you know when/where Tom/Thomas died?

[Merry]

There are 43 male Bells potentially marrying women called Hannah between 1891-1893, never mind the ones who are indexed incorrectly, and there's always the possibility the bride went as Ann or some other derivative of Hannah when she married, so there are endless possibilities!

[kiterunner]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but did Tom marry? If he did then get a copy of his marriage certificate and that should tell you his father's name.

[garstonite]

How sure are you that you are looking at the right Tom Bell? As you don't know his father's name, are you sure of his mother's name and his date/place of birth? I see his birth was most likely registered as Thomas and there are an awful lot of Thomas Bells!

Tommy Bell in Liverpool ??...there`s 5 in Garston and 5 in Speke and 5 in Toxteth and probably 100 in Liverpool at least....it`s a VERY popular name here in the pool...be careful with your research...and I presume it won`t be easy.....
on the census is it just HANNAH or is there an initial for a middle name ?
.allan

[Merry]

I just spent an age finding Lancaster St in a 1900 street directory, only to find number 47 had someone else listed as the householder (couldn't read the fuzzy image but it was something like John Gr??n, a smith.)

Erm, what was

Robsats

From playing with the 1911 index, I see this should say Robsart! Can't find that on any directory though, but I think that's because there's no directory for the right time frame on the Historic Directories site.

[alisondaviesbell]

thanks all, i guess i will try to get the birth cerificate of Tom Bell, then take it from there.
x

[garstonite]

1901 census 1911 census...does it by any chance say
Hannah L Bell ?..........allan

[alisondaviesbell]

Hi Allan,
Yeah i know that Bell is a very popular name in Liverpool, both my family and my husbands family are all scousers!

Unfortunatly, Hannahs name on both the 1901 & 1911 Census is just listed as Hannah Bell, her children on the 1911 census are:
John Bell - 17 - cart lad
Richard Bell - 16 - aprrentice book binder
Mary Bell - 13 - school
Alice Bell - 7 - school
Tom Bell - 4

on this census it says that Hannah had been married 19 years,
7 children born,
5 living
2 died,
i can see on the 1901 Census there is a daughter Margaret who must have died between 1901 and 1911.

i know from my grandfather in law (who was Thomas Son) Toms wife was called Ann Dollman, and their marrage according to the BMD was some time between January and March 1928.

How do i go about getting a birth Certificate for Thomas Bell, what information do i need to have before i send off for it?

thanks

[kiterunner]

You should order his marriage certificate first to get his father's name.

[alisondaviesbell]

Hi
As a complete novice to this how do i go about getting such certificates birth, marrage, death etc....
I am at the stage with several of my family members both on my family and my husbands that i need to get such certificates and have absolutly no idea how to do this.

what information do i need to have?
where do i apply or send off for it?
does this have to be done in person/online or by post?
How will know if i have recived the correct certificate?

[kiterunner]

You can order a cert from the GRO (nowadays called the Identity and Passport Service):

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The site has all the info about how to order online, but as far as I know you can also order by post or phone so shout if you want to know about that and I'll have a look for the info!

The easiest way to order from the GRO is if you have found the references on their BMD indexes, as for instance you say you found Thomas Bell and Annie Dolman's marriage Jan-Mar 1928. You go on the GRO website and fill in all the information on the online form, though in the case of a marriage you only need to put the name of one person, either the bride or the groom, you don't have to put both. So you would order a marriage certificate for 1928, tick "yes" for "Is the GRO reference known"? and enter the name Thomas Bell, quarter Mar 1928, district W Derby, volume 8b, page 373, all taken from the GRO index, enter your payment details etc and then you will get an estimated despatch date (when it will be sent to you).

You can also order from the local register office, and in this particular case it will be just as easy as ordering from the GRO because Lancashire have their own ordering system accessed via their website:
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

If you search for the marriage on there then when you have found it, it shows a reference number next to it - not the same as the GRO reference numbers - and some areas will allow you to order online, but for the Liverpool area you have to print off an application form and post it in. To get the printable form, just click on the reference number again and it will come up, mostly filled in for you.

Incidentally, Lancashire BMD shows the groom's name as Thomas J Bell and says they were married at Christ Church, Everton. The other way you could get to look at their marriage certificate would be, if you can easily get to the Liverpool Record Office and see if they hold the Christ Church, Everton marriages for 1928; if so then you could look through to find the marriage certificate and view it there and get a copy. Record offices charge different prices from each other for copies so I don't know if it would be cheaper than from the register office.

If I were you I would leave his birth certificate until you have his marriage certificate with father's name and occupation, then when you have that info, post it on here and we will help you find the correct references for his birth certificate, as it could be very tricky to order a birth certificate for someone with a name like Thomas Bell without the full references.