ships passengers to Australia

[garstonite]

Hiya ...I am trying to help a novice find when and which ship her gg grandmother and her gg grand Uncle travelled to Australia with her g grandmother ...between 1870 and 1885 from England... Ellen Elizabeth Fry and Harry Fry....there may be some more family with them....anyone recommend any sites please ?.....thanks....allan

[Mary from Italy]

Hi Allan, do you know which State they went to? Can you give me their ages and parents' names so I can search at the Aus end as well as the passenger lists?

[Mary from Italy]

Never mind, I think I might have found them.

The following passengers travelled to Queensland on the Scottish Knight on 23rd January 1877:

Alfred Fry, 19
George Fry, 14
John Fry, 11
Harry Fry, 9
Ellen Fry, 7

Do those ages sound right?

http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/research/index/immigration.asp

[garstonite]

Hiya Mary.....
....sorry for the delay , but just been looking for a little holiday for Ann...her birthdays 28th Aug....it`s always so awkward being Bank Holiday Weekend..
anyway...Harry was b 1867 and Ellen mar qtr 1869 ...in Gloucestershire
Ellen Elizabeth married in NSW in 1885...haven`t a clue where she landed in Australia...so she married at 16 we know that....I would think the family you have found is right as it was January ...so the ages match....what do you think ??....sorry...just checked 1871 census...it is them....you`re a star Mary...thanks very much...I`ll let this lady know now....cheers......Allan:)

[Mary from Italy]

In case the lady doesn't have them, you can find Queensland BMDs here:

https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m

and NSW here:

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births


and electoral rolls on Ancestry:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/Default.aspx?htx=List&dbid=1207&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0

The full passenger list is available from the Qld archives on payment, and may say where they were heading and if they were going to join other family members.

[garstonite]

Hiya Mary...they want to thank you...they are passing the info on to their 8 grandchildren and everyone is so happy you have found when and where they came to Australia , so I have invited her to become a member here...expect a post ...and thankyou once again...you have made the family very happy.....isn`t that nice....they are just beginning their research and are delighted.....allan;)

[Mary from Italy]

You (and they) are very welcome :)

There's a tiny bit more information here:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/shipping/mig-qld3.htm

ie. arrival and departure ports and dates.

[Lila]

Hi, I am the person that garstonite (Allan) referred to above, and we are so grateful to Mary for finding that information for us. We now have the name of the ship so we will have to now obtain the passenger list, as we suspect that when the five children of Joseph Fry and his wife Caroline nee Waldron came to Australia they may have travelled with their older sister Honora and her husband William Harris, and we have found a death record for Honora (1922/B3637) in Queensland, and a death record for their son James William Harris (1914/C1294) also in Queensland, but there are 15+ people by the name of William Harris in death records for Qld, so without knowing the name of his parents it is not easy to find his death record, and we think if we can link details like that we may be led into more details of the Fry family, as another thing we will now need to do is find out what happened to Alfred Fry, 19 George Fry, 14 and John Fry, 11. Until last week we were only aware of Ellen Fry and her brother Harry (because he was her NOK when he went off to WW1) but we then found mention of Honora on a document from the Army service of Harry, this led us to the site where Allen and others on that site found all sorts of detail about the family for us, and we now know Ellen had the other 3 brothers, so we will have to search for them to perhaps (and hopefully) find other cousins who are their descendants.

[HarrysMum]

Welcome Lila.

I'm so glad you've been able to get some help.

Mary is a genius (I know that from personal experience)

[garstonite]

Hiya Lila....glad you found us....enjoy this site....a very friendly site and great for research.....have fun....allan;)

[Mary from Italy]

Don't exaggerate, Libby, I've just been a bit lucky with a couple of yours :)

Lila, I've just checked the passenger lists on Ancestry, and William Harris (born c. 1851) and Honora Harris (born c. 1852) travelled to Sydney on the Abergeldie on 24th August 1885 with their 6 children. Judging by the 1861 census, I think this is the right Honora.

If it is the right family, there's an image of the passenger list on Ancestry. Do you have a subscription?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&f3=&f4=harris&sx=&rg_fa20__date=&rs_fa20__date=0&f11=&f16=&f17=&rg_f18__date=&rs_f18__date=0&f15=abergeldie&f14=&f13=&gskw=&prox=1&db=nswunassisted&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=rfs&gst=&so=3

[Mary from Italy]

This is the marriage of William and Honora (from FreeBMD):

Marriages Dec 1876
Fry Honora Leominster 6a 1150
Harris William Leominster 6a 1150

Haven't found them on the 1881 census yet, but I don't have much time to search this morning.

The children they emigrated with were Albert H, 10, James W, 8, Charles H, 6, Mary E, 4, Rose, 2, and George, inf..

[Mary from Italy]

In case you don't have Ancestry, the Abergeldie passenger list is available free on the NSW State Archives site:

http://tinyurl.com/38ovnel

Just checked, and this list is different from the Ancestry one, and better, because the Acestry one just gives ages, whereas this one also gives birthplaces.

[Mary from Italy]

The birthplaces were useful, because I've now found them in the 1881 census, living in Birmingham:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=WARRG11_3004_3007-0171&fn=Charles&ln=Harris&st=d&ssrc=&pid=22456801

Honora's transcribed as Hannah, unsurprisingly, because her name's very hard to read on the image.

[Mary from Italy]

I've finally managed to decipher William's birthplace, which is How Caple, Herefordshire.

I won't go any further for the moment, because I'm sure you'd rather have the fun of searching for yourself, but with that information, you'll now be able to find William's parents' names and his death in Qld.

You'll also find William and family on the Qld electoral roll.

[garstonite]

How Caple is 25 miles from Leominster where they married .....allan

[Mary from Italy]

Just looking to see if I could see what happened to mother Caroline and the other children.

A James Fry, 24, and Charles Fry, 14, travelled to Queensland on the Toowoomba on 30th November 1874:

http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/research/index/immigration.asp

There was a Julia Fry, 26, on the same boat.

A James and Charles Fry (no ages given, but presumably the same pair) travelled from Rockhampton to Sydney on the James Paterson, arriving on 8th January 1876.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1210&iid=imaus1787_081065-0046&fn=James&ln=Fry&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1761655

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1876/01/025jas.htm

It looks as though they went out first, and Alfred brought the younger children out to join them later. This makes me wonder if Caroline had died, as the younger children were very young to be travelling without their parents. Haven't found a death for her in Herefordshire, though.

[Mary from Italy]

There's a possible remarriage for Caroline that I thought looked promising:

Marriages Sep 1876
Adcock Walter / Ross / 6a 784
Adcocks Walter / Ross 6a 784
DAVIS Arthur / Ross 6a 784
Fry Caroline / Ross 6a 784
Portnall Mary Ann / Ross 6a 784

I've found Walter Adcock married to a Mary Ann in 1881, so this Caroline presumably married Arthur Davis. However, the only Caroline and Arthur Davis I can find in 1881 (where Caroline's born in Gloucestershire and about the right age) isn't the right couple, because they're also together in 1871. Can't see them on the Welsh census either.

[Mary from Italy]

Ah, how stupid. I've been looking for Caroline in the UK, and didn't think to check back to the Scottish Knight.

Caroline Davis, 40, and Arthur Davis, 29, travelled to Queensland on the same ship as Harry, Ellen and the other children. If this is Caroline, and I think it must be, she's certainly knocked a few years off her age :)

There's a death for a Caroline Davis in Armidale in 1906, which looks promising, because I see Harry died there, too.

[HarrysMum]

Ah, how stupid. I've been looking for Caroline in the UK, and didn't think to check back to the Scottish Knight.

Caroline Davis, 40, and Arthur Davis, 29, travelled to Queensland on the same ship as Harry, Ellen and the other children. If this is Caroline, and I think it must be, she's certainly knocked a few years off her age :)

There's a death for a Caroline Davis in Armidale in 1906, which looks promising, because I see Harry died there, too.



Ooooh......do I need to go down to photograph a grave?????? Please, please....lol

[Mary from Italy]

I was just thinking that was in your neck of the woods :)

One of my Inmans is buried in Armidale too, but I don't think there's a headstone, unfortunately.

[HarrysMum]

I'll have a look and see if our library has the cemetery index. I can photgraph the "spot". lol.......I have a lot of those for mine.

Our library is buying a lot of cemetery index books now so that's a big help.

[Mary from Italy]

Ah, that'd be interesting.

I see the Armidale FHS offer a research service, which I think includes the cemetery, but they charge $30 a name, which seems a bit steep.

[HarrysMum]

Email me all the ones you want and I'll check. Do you still have my email???

[Mary from Italy]

Will do, thanks very much.

[Mary from Italy]

Just checked the burials, and William and Honore Harris are buried together at Lutwyche Cemetery.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:304511479:pc=PC_899

[Kit]

I was just thinking that was in your neck of the woods :)

One of my Inmans is buried in Armidale too, but I don't think there's a headstone, unfortunately.

Just letting you know I haven't forgotten your Rookwood grave. Just haven't had a chance due to weather and other commitments. The details are stored in my phone though.

[Mary from Italy]

Don't worry, Kit, they're not going anywhere :) And I'm sure you've got a lot on your plate at the moment.

[Lila]

Mary, we thank you so much for all the work you have done for us, we could not possibly have done any of that, we do not have a subscription to Ancestry because, as pensioners, subscriptions are a bit beyond us. We have just found out yesterday that our local library has a connection to Ancestry and they allow us to use it and it costs nothing, so we will be going down during this coming week (and probably every week from now on) and taking advantage of the service they offer.

we will look for cemetary photos for headstones etc, but we have found in so many cases that small towns in Australia are often not included in the Cemetary index because they are usually done by volunteers and often there is nobody willing to do that in small country towns, especially those which in the late 1800s and early 1900s were the scene of gold mining with 1000s of people and are now small villages of less than 200 people and nobody new goes there to live any more as there is no employment for them, so small towns often just die out, shops close, pubs close, schools close , no bank and no post office, it is a shame but we have driven through many towns like that with the highway often miles away, and the towns have been bypassed when they built the highway. An example is the town where my maternal grandparent were married, about a 25 minute drive (now) from Armidale, had 4 pubs, shops, churches for all the major religions, now no church, no school, and less than 30 people live in the town, still mining gold but people live in Armidale and drive out to work.

[Mary from Italy]

You're very welcome :)

If you need any more help, just shout.

[HarrysMum]

Lila

I am a couple of hours drive north of Armidale but often go for a "walkabout". Send me a pm if there are others you'd like to find in the district.

Mary and I both have rellies buried around this area so I often go with a list. Also our library is buying cemetery index books so we have a few.

I haven't been around a lot lately due a sick dad, but hopefully things are looking up and I'll get out again soon.


PS......I get to Brisbane a bit as well.

[Mary from Italy]

Glad to hear your dad's doing better, Libby.

[Lila]

After all the information we have been given, we have just added so much to our tree, and passed all the info on to cousins who were also doing research, the best thing about it was that once we passed on the info we were given on this site, suddenly others in the family started to give us info they had kept to themselves and did not share, so we think when we showed them how important it is to share, they started to loosen up their information wallets. We still need some help though. The Ellen Fry that you helped us find, with her family, married Frederick Charles Basing, they are my g/grandparents. We have not been able to find when the father of Frederick Charles arrived in Australia and suspect he jumped ship in the mid 1850 to go to Ballarat to search for gold. His name was Charles Frederick Basing. We found a Henry Basing who arrived in Australia in November 1865 on the Norfolk, his age was 24, but can find no other record of him in Australia, no death, no marriage, no children, and can find nothing of his birth in England either, and we would like to find out if he is related to Charles, perhaps a cousin or something, or if anybody can help us find what or where he went after arrival in Australia that would also be a great help, because we are sure all the Basing people in Australia are related to us, but Henry Basing is a brick in a wall we cant knock down. Then we found a Blanche E Basing who married Harry Johanson in NSW, BDM 8127/1929 in Wollongong NSW, we can find no birth for her, but we found a death record (NSW BDM 202150/1976) for Blanche Emily Johanson that shows her parents to be James Alfred and Emily, and we found no birth marriage or death for them either, and wonder where they came from, where they lived and where they died, or even if they are related to our Basing family. I realise this is a lot to ask, but if anybody can put a light on any part of this it would be so much appreciated. Thanks, in anticipation.

[Merry]

Just a few questions.....

The Ellen Fry that you helped us find, with her family, married Frederick Charles Basing, they are my g/grandparents.

When and where were they married?

We have not been able to find when the father of Frederick Charles arrived in Australia and suspect he jumped ship in the mid 1850 to go to Ballarat to search for gold. His name was Charles Frederick Basing.

Do you know which country he was from? I take it Frederick Charles was born in Australia - when was that?

We found a Henry Basing who arrived in Australia in November 1865 on the Norfolk, his age was 24, but can find no other record of him in Australia, no death, no marriage, no children, and can find nothing of his birth in England either, and we would like to find out if he is related to Charles, perhaps a cousin or something, or if anybody can help us find what or where he went after arrival in Australia that would also be a great help, because we are sure all the Basing people in Australia are related to us, but Henry Basing is a brick in a wall we cant knock down.

There are several Henry Basings on the UK census of the right age who appear before 1865, so this might be quite a task. I'm guessing from this that the other Basings (FC AND CF) were from the UK.

Then we found a Blanche E Basing who married Harry Johanson in NSW, BDM 8127/1929 in Wollongong NSW, we can find no birth for her, but we found a death record (NSW BDM 202150/1976) for Blanche Emily Johanson that shows her parents to be James Alfred and Emily, and we found no birth marriage or death for them either, and wonder where they came from, where they lived and where they died, or even if they are related to our Basing family.

There's a Blanche Emily Basing born in Kensington, London in 1899. I can't see her in 1901 but in 1911 she is the adopted dau of a couple called John and Ann Cooke in Lancashire. There's no sign of a marriage of a James and Emily Basing to fit with this, so maybe it's not the same person, or perhaps the details for her parents are incorrect.

[kiterunner]

The Ellen E Fry / Frederick Basing marriage is on ancestry, Merry - they married in 1885 in Tenterfield, New South Wales. Frederick doesn't have a middle name on the marriage index.

[kiterunner]

Oh, and Frederick (Ellen's husband) doesn't seem to have a middle name on his children's births or deaths either?

[Merry]

Thanks Kate.

So Frederick, who married in 1885, doesn't yet have an age but he married Ellen who was about 16 years? Do we know which country he was born in?

Is this the death of Ellen Fry's husband or the death of one of his children?

18145/1940 BASING FREDERICK father: FREDERICK CHARLES mother EUNICE district LISMORE

If it's Ellen's husband then there seems to be a mix up with the forenames (you said dad was Charles Frederick) and if it's a son, who is Eunice?

UPDATE - I see Frederick and Ellen had a dau called Eunice! That's confusing unless she was named for her paternal grandmother.

*goes for a lie down* :D

[kiterunner]

That Frederick Basing who died in 1940 is Ellen's husband and his mother was called Eunice Mary, from what I've found looking at various indexes, people's trees on ancestry, etc. His parents got married in 1866 in Ballarat, Victoria, Charles Frederic Basing and Eunice Kelly. Some people have her listed on their trees as Eunice Mary Wise, married to a Mr Kelly before she married Charles Basing. Her name is given as Eunice Mary Wise on the death of one of her children.

But the trees I looked at said Frederick Basing was born in 1860, some of them said he was born in Ballarat, Victoria, but if so then he was born long before his parents married? Think I'll have to have another look through those trees...

[Merry]

Good idea Kate.

I've just written a long post, but deleted it all, to say the family inc Frederick b abt 1832 and Henry b 1839 from Brightwalton Berkshire are NOT the right ones! lol

[kiterunner]

There is a James A Basing who died in 1927 age 77 in Thorne district, England, and an Emily Basing who died in 1940 in Scunthorpe district, England, also age 77 - possibles for Blanche Emily's parents? Although of course that area is nowhere near where Blanche Emily was born!

[kiterunner]

Ah, I just found out there is an alternative spelling - Bazing. And Frederick Bazing's birth was registered in 1860 at Lethbridge, Victoria, parents Charles Bazing and Mary Wise.

Not sure whether this is connected or not - a marriage in Victoria in 1856 between Robert Richard Caley and Eunice Wise.

[Merry]

Ah! lol

[Merry]

Would the death cert for the husband of Eunice Mary have his place of birth/parents names on it?

[kiterunner]

Okay, cross-checking between the Victoria online indexes and the version on ancestry, it looks as if Frederick Bazing was registered under both surnames in 1860, (although ancestry says 1868 for Frederick Wise it looks like that is a mistake because the registration number shown matches the 1860 registration!)

Then there is Walter Wise born in 1862 and Charles Wise born in 1864, both registered at Ballarat East, Victoria. As far as I can see, they were only registered as Wise, but at least now we know for sure that Frederick's father was Charles Basing (or Bazing).

But - are we sure that Mary Wise is the same person as Eunice?

[kiterunner]

Would the death cert for the husband of Eunice Mary have his place of birth/parents names on it?

The death index gives his parents' names as Jno Basing and Leah Webb. I'm not sure if the actual death cert will show his place of birth but those two got married 4th or 5th March 1815 at either Bray, Berkshire or Hampshire, according to FamilySearch Record Search, well I think it was there I looked earlier! I couldn't see Charles Frederick's birth on there though.

[kiterunner]

Eunice Wise arrived at Geelong, Australia on 16th Sep 1856 on the Omega from Southampton, age 19.

Then Eunice Basing died 1921 Wonthaggi, Victoria, age 84, parents Jno Wise & Mary Mardlin. So the age at death more or less matches with the Eunice above. No mention of a middle name for her on either of these records, though! But it does look as though Mary Wise and Eunice are the same person, doesn't it? And that she married Robert Richard Caley or Kelly soon after arriving in Australia, then split up with him before 1860.

[kiterunner]

Eunice Wise is on the 1841 census at Ellington, Huntingdonshire, age 3, with parents John and Mary, and FamilySearch Record Search has a baptism for her at Alconbury Weston, Huntingdonshire, 16 Mar 1856, parents John and Mary. So it all ties up nicely with the above. Maybe she wanted a pseudonym when she was having illegitimate children and that's why she called herself Mary at that time?

[Merry]

How do you get all that info from the Victoria BMDs? I have only beeen able to use them to clarify info I already have - ie if I know the parental names and so enter them, and the index entry is still available to view, I know what I've entered is on the index, but doing anything else seems to cost money. :confused:

[kiterunner]

Like I said, I was cross-checking against what it has on ancestry, Merry. I only use the Victoria site to check how many matches there are for whatever I put in, otherwise as you say, I would have to pay.

I'm afraid I've got nowhere with the question of when Charles Basing arrived in Australia, though.

[Merry]

Do you mean on people's trees on Ancestry?

[Mary from Italy]

There are a lot of Australian BMDs on Ancestry now.

[kiterunner]

Well, that too, but I meant the Australia BMD indexes they have on ancestry (snap, Mary!).

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1778

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1780

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1779

You probably need the worldwide sub for them to be any use, though?

[Merry]

Yes you do and I don't have that. :o