Police Constable in 1861 to Messenger in Brewery in 1871?

[Margaret in Burton]

I have George Harvey in 1871, Guild St, Burton on Trent, Staffordshire

He is a Messenger in a Brewery

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=STSRG10_2905_2908-0318&fn=Thomas&ln=Harvey&st=d&ssrc=&pid=17234231


1861

George Harvey , Walsall Wood, Staffordshire

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=STSRG9_2018_2018-0317&fn=Thomas&ln=Harvey&st=r&ssrc=&pid=20388848

1871, says he was born Lichfield
1861 says Shenstone
(they are very close)

different wife, but the first could have died, haven't checked yet.

Daughter Jane born 1860 in Walsall Wood on both census.

It's got to be the same family but how the heck do you go from being a Police Constable to a Messenger in a Brewery?

Was he fired??

[Langley Vale Sue]

George was 58 in 1871. Did the police have a compulsory retirement age back then?

There's a marriage in Walsall district in March qtr 1863 for George Harvey and one of the brides listed is Emily Peach.

Also a death of an Ann Harvey in Walsall district in Sept qtr 1862. If it's him, he remarried quickly ;) I wonder whether that has anything to do with him leaving the police force ;) LOL

[Margaret in Burton]

Mmm

Thanks Sue

I'd wondered about retirement. He was also a police officer in 1851 but if I have the right one in 1841 (haven't checked properly yet) he's a butcher with yet another wife Sarah. :o:o

[Langley Vale Sue]

Marg

Is this your tree on Ancestry?
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/13803333/person/17315604

It shows George Harvey married Ann Salt in 1837 in Gnosall, Staffs.

[Mary from Italy]

In case it's helpful, I've checked the baptisms for Shenstone St. John the Baptist, and he isn't there, but there's a likely one at Lichfield St. Michael's:

6th June 1813, George Harvey, son of George and Kitty, abode Shenstone. Father's occupation: servant.

[Nell]

You would need to get his police record to find out if he left of his own volition, or was dismissed. Policemen of that time were regularly penalised for being drunk. Or maybe he was injured in the course of his duties and unable to work as a police constable?

[Olde Crone]

I have a police constable - 1861 and 1871. By 1881 he is landlord of a pub (and has married his 16 year old niece, who gave birth to his baby when she was 14, oh the shame of it all).

OC

[Nell]

I don't have any scandal of that sort in the family. But I did have several great-uncles who joined the Metropolitan Police. One of them was a career policeman and rose to the rank of Sergeant, retiring on a good pension.

But another left after a year saying that he couldn't "serve God and the devil at the same time" and worked as an insurance agent afterwards. Eventually the poor man went insane.

Another ex-Met gt uncle ran a pub in Hertford after he left the Force.

[Margaret in Burton]

Marg

Is this your tree on Ancestry?
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/13803333/person/17315604

It shows George Harvey married Ann Salt in 1837 in Gnosall, Staffs.

No, not my tree.

This is my cousins family and I only started it yesterday.

That looks like the same family but not a lot of detail in it.

I'll check it out later, thanks Sue

[Margaret in Burton]

In case it's helpful, I've checked the baptisms for Shenstone St. John the Baptist, and he isn't there, but there's a likely one at Lichfield St. Michael's:

6th June 1813, George Harvey, son of George and Kitty, abode Shenstone. Father's occupation: servant.

Yes, I've seen that one Mary. I reckon that is him though.

[Margaret in Burton]

You would need to get his police record to find out if he left of his own volition, or was dismissed. Policemen of that time were regularly penalised for being drunk. Or maybe he was injured in the course of his duties and unable to work as a police constable?

Nell

How do I do that?

Can't get to Kew.

[Nell]

Margaret

Your chap wasn't in the Met so his records wouldn't be at Kew. If they survive they should be either at the relevant county records office OR still held by the relevant police force.

[Margaret in Burton]

Margaret

Your chap wasn't in the Met so his records wouldn't be at Kew. If they survive they should be either at the relevant county records office OR still held by the relevant police force.

Thanks Nell.

Highly unlikely for me to be able to go to Stafford. It's not even my tree, LOL, it's my cousins. :d:d

[Muggins in Sussex]

It doesn't answer your question, Marg - but this is quite interesting http://www.staffordshire.police.uk/about_us/history/

Don't know whether they would be able to help

Edit - I see the surviving records are at the records office - http://www.staffordshire.police.uk/about_us/history/staffs_police_collections

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks for that Joan

The chances of me getting to Stafford are zilch though. As I said, it's not even my tree.
I'll leave this bit alone for now I think. It's up to my cousin if she wants to investigate it further.

[Mary from Italy]

You don't need to go to Stafford in person - your cousin can e-mail them. They do charge for research if it takes up any time, though.

[Margaret in Burton]

You don't need to go to Stafford in person - your cousin can e-mail them. They do charge for research if it takes up any time, though.

She's on holiday at the moment Mary, I'll mention that to her.

[Margaret in Burton]

Marg

Is this your tree on Ancestry?
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/13803333/person/17315604

It shows George Harvey married Ann Salt in 1837 in Gnosall, Staffs.

I've just been checking that tree. Errrrrmmm, if that is the same George Harvey that they are trying to make out it was then Ann was about the age of 12 when they married in 1837.

She's 27 in 1851 and 35 in 1861. George was born in 1813. I have his baptism in Lichfield and they have it in Dilhorne, nowhere near to where he was born.

I don't think he married Ann Salt.



Edit

Just found the birth of John Harvey in Gnosall in 1845 on StaffsBMD. Gives mothers maiden name as Gregory not Salt. Now to try and find a marriage.

[Gert in Oz]

Marg...Check to see if there is a police museum for the area, i have 2 policemen in my tree, i got one lot of records from Derby RO and the other from Birmingham police museum.

[Margaret in Burton]

Ok Sylvia

LOL

I've just found his grandson in Stafford Jail in 1881, his grandfather was dead by then.

[Anne in North London]

Margaret,

I ordered my GGF's police record from Staffordshire last year (about £7), the searchable index is

http://www.staffsnameindexes.org.uk/StartPage.aspx?Mode=Details&Index=B

They were very helpful when I emailed them afterwards to ask if there was anywhere I could look to findout why he had been dismissed, they searched for me and ................... Drunk on duty, insubordinate and drunk the next morning!!!!!:eek:

I had a quick look and there are 3 people called George Harvey, they may help if you email or phone them first.

Hope this helps

Anne

[Mary from Italy]

That's a brilliant index - I hadn't seen it before. Thanks very much :)

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Ann

I've bookmarked that site and will tell my cousin.