Christopher Eccles - was he from Darwen, and which one ?

[marquette]

My 4xg grandfather, Christopher Eccles, turns up in Manchester in 1827 to marry Martha Ackers. They have 6 children and appear in the 1841 census before Christopher dies in 1842.

So where and when was he born and who were his parents ?

Christopher was listed as 50 years, meaning he was a least 50 (born before Jun 1791) and not yet 55 (born after Jun 1786), born in Lancashire county, and a h.l.weaver (hand loom waever).

Chris and Martha lived in Short Street Ancoats and were married at the Collegiate Church (Manchester Cathedral) their local church.

There is another Christopher Eccles marriage at the Cathedral - a Christopher Eccles married Alice Grange in 1794, a bit too late to be the first Christopher's father, unless the ages on the census are way out. (No children for them in the IGI)

So, I made a list of all the Christopher Eccles baptised 1786-1790 in Lancashire - from the IGI, Lancsbmd, OPC and non-conformist BMD registers online.

I narrowed the possibilities available at the current time to four - I liked Christopher b 1790 to George and Ann in Darwen the best, but then I found a burial for a Christopher Eccles, son of George in 1793.

The other three are the son of Sarah Eccles bap 1786 at Darwen, the son of John and Ellen bap May 1783 at Darwen, or the son of John and Catherine bap March 1783 at Darwen. (These two should be listed as 55 in 1841, but you never know, so I kept them in the list)

The children of Christopher and Martha were
John, Eliza, William, Christopher, William and Elizabeth.

His son John's children were Christopher, Elizabeth, John and William.
His son Christopher's children were John, Janet, Christopher and Martha.

I am not sure that they used the traditional naming patterns, as Martha's father was Joseph (living with them in 1841 census) and his name was not used.

I now have pages and pages of Christopher Eccles with baptisms, marriages and some burials, and I am in a mess.

Can anyone help me sort them out ?

Di

[Merry]

Di, It sounds as if you have done a lot of work towards findig the right Christopher, however, you do't mention the easier bits! How old was he on his death cert and do the witnesses at his marriage help at all?

[marquette]

Oh Dear, I thought I had his death cert, but its his grandsons, so I will have to get the right one. And I have not found the witnesses to the marriage yet. I thought i found some of the Manchester Cathedral records on line last year, but cannot locate the site again. Might need to try the LDS for the microfilm.

[Olde Crone]

Marquette

I belong to a small forum devoted to Darwen people and we have access to two very extensive trees on there - one is mine and the other is a collective effort.

A local amateur genealogist called Jeremy Hunt dictated a book in the 1880s, which detailed the family histories of the leading families of Darwen from the 1600s forwards. He was remarkably accurate considering he had never written anything down, lol.

He did a short chapter on the Eccles family of Darwen and mentions several Christophers, none of whom match with yours. Of course, this doesn't prove a thing, but you may want to consider casting your net outside Darwen.

I have put a message on the Darwen forum and hopefully someone will be able to at least eliminate the other candidates you have mentioned, which would be better than nothing I suppose!

EDIT - I have reread the chapter on the Eccles family of Darwen (Jeremy Hunt) and he declares there are two distinct Eccles families around 1700 in Darwen - one of Eccleshill (ha ha) and the other of Waterside. Neither mentions any Christopher until about 1830. Hunt further states that the Eccles families came to Darwen in about 1700, one from clitheroe, the other from Walton le Dale.
OC

[marquette]

Thanks OC,

The earliest Christopher Eccles I can find in Darwen is 1738 baptised to William and Elizabeth. So that might be right that they came to Darwen from elsewhere - I will have to consult a map and consider the earlier ones I have.

I did have some misgivings about Christopher being one of the Darwen Eccles's. They seem all staunchly non-conformist and to suddenly take to the Collegiate Church seems an about-face, so maybe I should be checking more CofE records, further afield for Christopher.

In the meantime, I will send for the death cert for a hopefully more definite age at death. And see if I can order the marriages microfilms for Manchester for witnesses, although this seems a long shot.

If its going to be one of the Darwen Christophers, I just know its going to be the baseborn son of Sarah, just to make life complicated. Or he IS from Manchester, just no baptism record to be found.

If anyone can eliminate any Christopher Eccles born in Lancashire in the 1780s, I would be happy that I can narrow down the candidates.

Diane

[Mary from Italy]

I think Finbar also mentioned that he'd been researching an Eccles family from Darwen.

[Olde Crone]

I think you are going to be unlucky with the Manchester marriage. It is on the IGI, and also on the new LDS pilot site and there is no mention of witness names on either entry.

I cannot pull up the marriage on the LAN-OPC site, but I have been having a lot of problems with that site recently (accessing the records). It is telling me today, for instance, that there are no records for Eccles at Manchester.....

George Eccles appears to have married Ann Ratcliff(e) and john Eccles married Catherine Harwood/Horwood. Neither couple is mentioned by Hunt.

I suppose you could look for a burial for Christopher. you never know, there might be a MI which would help.

OC

[marquette]

Thanks again OC.
I can never find very much in the LAN-OPC site for Manchester, or Lancsbmd.

I will have a look at the LDS pilot site - I did not realise they had added Manchester !! I might be able to check more things.

I wish I could remember where I found the Collegiate church records on-lline - I am sure I had it bookmarked, but idiot son has deleted all My favourites from HIS computer.

THere are some burials etc on the bmdregisters.co.uk website, but access to them seems very expensive, so I would not ask anyone else to use their credits up on my stuff - when I find a few extra dollars/pounds I might be able to buy a few credits and at least look at the burials, which are the only things I cannot find in the IGI or other sites.

Christopher Eccles d 1842 is not listed on the Manchester burials on-lline, but the rest of them are there, so that has filled in a lot of details.

Mr Hunt apparently did a remarkable job of the Darwen families. My aunt, wife of my Uncle John Eccles, was a Shorrock by birth, from the Darwen area, although they married in Australia.

Now, do I want to belong to Over Darwen or Lower Darwen ?

Di

[Mary from Italy]

Some of the Manchester Collegiate Church records are on the Lan-OPC site:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Manchester/Manchester/cathedral/index.html

Non-conformist records for London are on Ancestry now, as well as bmdregisters - not sure if they're going to add the rest of the country.

[marquette]

Some of the Manchester Collegiate Church records are on the Lan-OPC site:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Manchester/Manchester/cathedral/index.html

Non-conformist records for London are on Ancestry now, as well as bmdregisters - not sure if they're going to add the rest of the country.

None of them include the years I need, of course. But maybe they are the records I found before.

Di

[Olde Crone]

Oh, that's interesting because I do have an Eccles/Shorrock line on the tree and this line descends from a definite Darwen Eccles - Thomas Eccles (Owd Sapling Bough) born before 1700. This Thomas Eccles and his brother Edmund owned farms called Ecclesfold and Shorrock fold.

Marrying at the Cathedral does not necessarily denote a sudden rush of conventional religion, lol. It just means either one or both of them lived in Manchester OR it means they wanted to marry in a quiet hurry. Manchester Cathedral was a Peculiar and you did not need to call Banns, nor live in the area, to marry there. It was the Gretna Green of Lancashire.

Also, don't forget, at that time, you could only marry in the C of E, so it would either be at Man Cath or at Blackburn Cathedral (St Mary the Virgin).

OC

[marquette]

Hmm, so nothing further eliminated !!
Back to the death cert, I feel.

I had a look at the 1841 census - I could only find two Christopher Eccles of approx. right age - mine and one in Ribchester. So there's no elimination of any others still.

So, OC, did one of your Shorrocks migrate to NSW ? I think her parents were Ernest L Shorrock (son of Thomas and Elizabeth) and Mabel Rose Phillips.

Di