Sutherland Brick Wall & Ancestry/IGI Info

[BlueSavannah]

Good Evening All

I am looking at my great x 4 grandmother, Sarah Sutherland, and family. I have found baptisms on IGI and Ancestry for Sarah and her siblings but some info is confusing. I wondered if one of them was more reliable than the other?

This is what I have:
All are children of Hugh Sutherland and Mary Earnshaw. Some of the ancestry records give the grandfathers names as John Sutherland and John Earnshaw.
- Sarah Sutherland baptised at Wath on Dearne, Yorks 12th October 1796 (born 23rd September 1796). This record is only on the IGI

- Isabella Sutherland baptised at Wath on the 24th April 1803. This record is only on Ancestry.
- Elizabeth Sutherland baptised at Wath on the 24th April 1803. This is only on the IGI
First confusion is that Isabella and Elizabeth appear to be the same person.

- Marien Sutherland who according to Ancestry was baptised 17th April 1808. However, IGI has name as Mary Ann and baptised 17th February 1808. Both give birth date as 7th February 1808.

- Ellin Sutherland who according to IGI was baptised at Wath on the 29th August 1810. Ancestry states baptised at Wath on the 29th July 1810. (ancestry also thinks that Ellin was born on the 28th November 1810 lol).

- Hugh Sutherland. Baptised at Swinton, Yorks, on the 1st April 1814. Baptism isnt on IGI.

- Jennet Sutherland and Daniel Sutherland both baptised 27th July 1817. Not sure if these are twins or just baptised on same day. On both ancestry and IGI.

These are the only children I can find. I cannot find a marriage for Hugh Sutherland and Mary Earnshaw so I am only presuming that my great x 4 grandma was their first child. However, I have found their burials at St Margaret, Swinton, Yorkshire which would suggest Sarah was the first born.

Burials:
Hugh Sutherland - Buried 5th August 1835 aged 81.
Mary Sutherland - Buried 12th March 1861 aged 84.

Looks like Mary was quite abit younger than Hugh which may suggest he had been married before. I have tried to find Mary on 41 and 51 census with no joy at present.

Any guidance on which, if any, info I should trust to be the more accurate info, much appreciated :)

Claire

[kiterunner]

My OH has some people in his tree who couldn't decide whether they were Isabellas or Elizabeths. Isabella does seem to have been a variant of Elizabeth in some parts of the country.

As for the discrepancies in baptism dates, you would have to look at the actual parish registers to find out for sure. I'll have a quick look to see what sources are given on each site but it all comes down to a transcription error somewhere along the way, and the only way to find out which version is correct would be to look at the original.

[kiterunner]

Okay, having had a quick look on FamilySearch Record Search, it appears that the records you found on ancestry are from the BIVRI (British Isles Vital Record Index), and the IGI records you looked at are "extracted" ones. I couldn't say which of those is more reliable in my experience; you would have to look at the parish registers.

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Kite

Many thanks for taking a look. I hadnt realised that Isabella was a variation of Elizabeth. I have never come across it before. The Wath and Swinton records are at Rotherham Records Office which is a pain as Sheffield Archives is easy for me to get to on the train, Rotherham isnt :( Something to add to my ever growing 'to do' list lol.

[kiterunner]

This is a possible for Mary in 1851 although the age for son Hugh is a few years out:

Station Street, Swinton, Yorkshire
Hugh Sunderland Head Mar 32 Potter Yorkshire Swinton
Cristiana Do Wife Mar 30 Do Do
Thos Do Son 12 Potter Do Do
William Do Son 9 Do Do Do
Emily Do Daur 7 Scholar Do Do
Aughur(?) Do Son 1 Do Do
Mary Do Mother Wid 76 Pauper Do Do

[BlueSavannah]

ooooh im quite confident that that is Mary. Her age would tie in with the age on the burial record for her.

Just looked at the NBI again and Hugh and Cristiana are also buried at St Margaret, Swinton. Hugh's age at burial ties in with the baptism year.

many thanks

[Mary from Italy]

The Wath and Swinton records are at Rotherham Records Office which is a pain as Sheffield Archives is easy for me to get to on the train, Rotherham isnt :(

You could order them from your nearest LDS centre.

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Mary. Ive never used an LDS centre before. I will try to find out if there is one near where I live in Lancashire and contact them :)

[Mary from Italy]

You'll find the list of addresses here:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp

[Mary from Italy]

Here's son Daniel in Staffordshire in 1841 (mistranscribed as David):

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=hugh&gsln=sutherland&sx=&f1=&f2=&f3=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1837&rs_81004011__date=5&_82004011=&_82004013=&f7=&f20=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1841&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=1&h=13862875&recoff=1+2

and 1851:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=daniel&gsln=sutherland&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=1817&rs_81004011__date=5&f27=&f14=york*&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1851&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=8368545&recoff=1+2

No sign of Mary, though.

I was just thinking that some of the names sound a bit Scottish, and in fact one of Daniel's children was born in Glasgow.

Can't see Mary on the 1841 census in either Scotland or England, though.

[Mary from Italy]

From the IGI:

MARY EARNSHAW
Female

Event(s):

Marriages:
Spouse: HUGH SAULTHERLAND
Marriage: 07 JUL 1796 Wath Upon Dearne, Yorkshire, England

[BlueSavannah]

Many thanks for those links Mary. I have a feeling you could be right about the Scottish sounding names. I had wondered about the name Hugh Sutherland. Looking at the age of Daniel, I am thinking he and Jennet were twins. Jennet died aged 1. He/She (not sure if the name if male or female) is buried at Swinton.

I cant find a marriage for Hugh and Mary Earnshaw. Kite has managed to find Mary on the 51 census with a son and is stating she was born Swinton but that could be wrong.

I am wondering if Hugh left a will at all, cant see anything on the national archives site.

Thanks again :)

[BlueSavannah]

ah, posted before I saw your last post Mary. Mmm...why couldnt I find that on the IGI? lol.

Looks like Mary was heavily pregnant with my great x 4 grandmother with that marriage date :)

I really need to see the original records now.

[Mary from Italy]

I originally thought this might be the marriage of Hugh and Mary's daughter Isabella/Elizabeth, but it's a bit late:

Elizabeth Sutherland
Female

Event(s):

Parents:
Father: Hugh Sutherland

Marriages:
Spouse: William Hobson
Marriage: 09 DEC 1850 Swinton Near, Rotherham, Yorkshire, England

[Mary from Italy]

Mmm...why couldnt I find that on the IGI?

I tried putting in Mary's full name with Hugh's Christian name only, in case the surname was spelled wrongly or differently, and sure enough, it was.

[BlueSavannah]

lol....I must be getting tired to not have thought of trying that.

Thanks for that marriage of Elizabeth/Isabella. Think I will go with Elizabeth until I see what she is written as in the parish records. Looked at the link and there doesnt appear to be an LDS centre near me. I will try to get to Rotherham over the summer to look at this more.

[Mary from Italy]

Elizabeth Hobson née Sutherland turns out to be the daughter of Hugh and Christiana; she and her husband are living next door to her parents in 1851:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=elizabeth&gsln=hobson&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=5&f27=&f14=york*&f15=swinton&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=william&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1851&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=14267789&recoff=1+2+37

[kiterunner]

I am wondering if Hugh left a will at all, cant see anything on the national archives site.


It's mostly southern wills on TNA; you would need to check at the Borthwick Institute in York. But since Mary is a pauper on the 1851 census I suspect he may not have left one.

By the way, the name Jennet is a variation of Janet.

[BlueSavannah]

Thanks for the advice Kite about wills (still trying to learn about wills). I think you are probably right though with Mary being a pauper.

Ah...at least I can put Jennet in the tree as female now :)

[Tim Sutherland]

Hello
My name is Tim Sutherland and I now live near York. It would appear that if you are related to Hugh Sutherland from Swinton then we are also related.
Our family have always named the first son Hugh as part of their name and we have now traced our roots to the Swinton and Wath Sutherlands. My brother and I have now the same links as you but are stuck at the same point. It would be interesting to discuss this.
With very best wishes
Tim

[BlueSavannah]

Hello Tim

Many thanks for your message. I am really happy to hear from you. I will send you an email to discuss this family more :)

Best Wishes

[SimonFrance]

Hello,
My brother, Tim, has already replied to this thread but we have progressed much further now.
We have recovered a copy of a certificate that shows that Hugh Sutherland came from Rogart in Sutherland.
In addition we have many stories about Daniel, his son, and his work in the Temperance movement and the pottery industry.
I've also traced a bit of Sarah's family and it would be good to catch up with each other's missing information.
Please email me when you get the chance.

Simon Sutherland